VIC 2016 Xmas in July Case Swap - TASTING

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10. Grainer - Vienetta Saison

Unfortunately this tastes nothing like a Vienetta ice cream...

Jks. Pours with some large bubbles that break down to a non-existent head. Aroma is subtle saison funk, but not as strong as I've come to identify as a saison, was this fermented cool for a saison?
Straw golden colour. Very low carb, definitely needs more to lift the saison yeast funk. Smooth mouthfeel almost silky. But of alcohol on the taste, what's the ABV? Quite sweet too, is that the Vienna malt's effect? Or did this finish higher than a regular saison due to cool ferment?
Not loving it not hating it. But am critiquing based on a straight saison so could be missing the point?
 
TheWiggman said:
10. Grainer - Viennella Saison
I'll say straight up I don't like Saisons, so take this with a grain of salt.
I picked at random not knowing what this was. Made a satisfying "pssh" that is irrelevant but nonetheless satisfied me. Pours a hazy golden colour, quite pleasant. On opening the whiff I got reminded me of extract. It came across as wheaty, but lacks the phenolic and bubblegum character synonymous with wheats. Flavourwise it's classic barnyard saison with a bit of malt supporting it, guessing Vienna based on the name and colour. Finishes DRY. Unfortunately I can't rave about it because it's a classic saison. I'll leave an honest review to the fans.
To be honest I am not a fan of Saison, but it was a very well made SMASH beer with Vienna and Ella and probably the most complex brew I have ever done. Haziness is typical of Saison, and shouldn't have bubblegum etc..that would be out of style.. ..I thought it finished a little too sweet..should have been way dryer.. its cause of the Vienna malts it didn't..
 
Grainer said:
To be honest I am not a fan of Saison, but it was a very well made SMASH beer with Vienna and Ella and probably the most complex brew I have ever done. Haziness is typical of Saison, and shouldn't have bubblegum etc..that would be out of style.. ..I thought it finished a little too sweet..should have been way dryer.. its cause of the Vienna malts it didn't..
It was Vienella.. NOT Vienetta .. LMAO... Vienna grains and Ella Hops SMASH..


You are correct with the sweetness of the vienna grains.. possibly should have a little more funk and lost some carb on the transfer form kegs to bottles..it was carbed at 20psi in kegs for bottle transfer .. obviously it needed higher.. to needed foto be in bottles at least 16PSI..it is 6.2% ..normally it would have about 6 month to settle.. but I couldn't be bothered with that! Temperature Fermentation was 26Deg C..so Saison territory..but used a mix of Belgian and French Saison Yeasts.. it also had a lower souring (backend taste only-not typical of a saison as it was for the crowds) with wild/Lacto bravis/Lacto.plantarum cultures..
 
I've only tried one Saison but I'm openly not a fan of wheat beers, and both saisons reminded me if one. However yeah I wasn't expecting bubblegum/banana etc, because that would make it a wheat beer. They share similarities though. And I'm no beer judge - I don't brew 'to style' 'cause I don't necessarily know what the style is ;)
100% Vienna huh? Interesting. Tasted super dry to me, I got little sweetness. I've got an IPA at the moment with about 30% Vienna and it comes through a lot. Perhaps the yeast goes to work on the malts as the yeast certainly makes a saison.
 
TheWiggman said:
I've only tried one Saison but I'm openly not a fan of wheat beers, and both saisons reminded me if one. However yeah I wasn't expecting bubblegum/banana etc, because that would make it a wheat beer. They share similarities though. And I'm no beer judge - I don't brew 'to style' 'cause I don't necessarily know what the style is ;)
100% Vienna huh? Interesting. Tasted super dry to me, I got little sweetness. I've got an IPA at the moment with about 30% Vienna and it comes through a lot. Perhaps the yeast goes to work on the malts as the yeast certainly makes a saison.
Yes I was surprised.. it worked quite well with the Vienna as a SAMSH beer.. ..The yeast did dominate the beer and hence why I went for yeast mix to give it some complexity over the Vienna single malt..
 
For the record if it was properly carbed with good head retention it would have been on point for me (saison fan). Wouldn't have picked all the other 'bugs' in it cos I haven't brewed with them. Definitely no sour element to taste to me, again, probably my noobness.
 
So is Vienna noticeably sweeter than Pilsner?
I'm looking at doing ~85% Vienna in an Amber Lager. Combined with biscuit & CaraBoh, & mashing at 63 for an hour. Just want to make sure it's not going to be too sweet
 
technobabble66 said:
So is Vienna noticeably sweeter than Pilsner?
I'm looking at doing ~85% Vienna in an Amber Lager. Combined with biscuit & CaraBoh, & mashing at 63 for an hour. Just want to make sure it's not going to be too sweet
I would say so as it is more crystallised.. any comments from the crowd.. I am not sure??
 
11. Reardo - Mountain Goat Summer Ale
Straight off the bat Nelson Sauvin rears it's head. I've had bad experiences with it but it's fairly restrained here. I haven't tried the genuine article so I'm judging as-is. Light but persistent head, good level of carbonation. It's medium bodied and has a bit of malt backbone to it. Probably a little too hoppy as it feels like it should be a bit less flavoursome, else needs more ABV or malt character to level it out. Less flavour hops probably, otherwise decent. At a guess probably move the hops later to aromatics but keep the same level of bitterness. But I'm being picky - thanks for the beer.

Ed: I might take back my comment about ABV, based on my judgement this beer might be stronger than I thought.
 
#10 - Viennella Saison, Grainer

Appearance
Deep golden. Moderate haze - all to style.
Slight head that collapses quite quickly
Tiny bit of medium lacing

Aroma
Nice sweet honey with a little saisony funk - a tiny "white peppery" element.
Light fruity element.

Flava
Light bitterness
Alcohol warmth and flavour, fades into a mild lingering bitterness
Light fruitiness. Slight honey flavour with a bit of maltiness.
Light, initial sweetness, but reasonably dry overall.
Thin mouthfeel
Seems high carbonation in the mouthfeel
Later sips are fine on the “mouth-carb” level as it dissipates.

Overall
I’ll admit I quite like saisons, though i’m not especially knowledgeable about them. Also, i generally prefer to comment on what i like, as opposed to what’s required in the style guidelines.
Having said that, … i liked this! I really liked the aroma and flavours from it - i’ve been focused on ESBs, lagers, IPAs, DIPAs, etc, and have loosely been looking a few months ahead to what i might brew next, and thinking “yeah i might get back to saisons at some point later on.” This reminds me how much i love the Belgian styles and how i’ve gotta start the planning ASAP!
I love the slightly different spin on Pilsner malt it seems Vienna brings to the party (light honey “sweetness” with a bit more depth) - gives me some confidence with an upcoming 85% vienna malt lager. The bittering seems roughly bang on for this - subtle, but definitely present and lingers just a little bit.
I was also keen to see how a non-wheat saison turned out. This is great evidence that, with this style, wheat can just **** off. Clearly not necessary. (Well, i can’t pick any, and i don’t think you’ve mentioned it in your earlier comments). Maybe wheat would bring extra awesomeness to the party, but i doubt it. For a SMASH, this has plenty of depth in the malt aspect.
Not sure what the Ella is doing here, TBH. There’s maybe some extra fruitiness but it’s subtle - i actually think that’s a good thing for this style. Maybe it or the vienna is adding to the “sweet honey” aroma, adding a bit more candi-like depth. Could be handy for adding that “candy” element to Belgian ales(?).
FWIW, i can't pick up anything obvious with the weird yeast/bug combo thing you did. Apologies, but for the Belgian/French combo it'll be just however the Saisony element works out (~ same as Belle Saison, tbh); but the souring i just can't pick - it's kinda hidden in the lingering alcohol & bitterness. There might be something there if i think really hard, but if you didn't tell me, i'd never pick it!
I guess the only minor issue i’d critique is the high alcohol flavour + thin mouthfeel. Thin mouthfeel is kinda to style, but i’d guess maybe you’ve mashed a whisker too low - so it’s fermented out more heavily (or the yeast has unfortunately been too enthusiastic), creating a bit too much booze for the grist/hops/yeast balance, and a mouthfeel that is a bit thin where the carb bubbles out a bit too easily. I’m saying this partly from personal experience with the same problem and same result. Happy to be corrected on this! So i'd maybe mash higher and just rely on the crazy Belgian yeasts doing their thing anyway - i.e.: they'll attenuate it out anyway, but with a higher mash you'll get a bit more mouthfeel. Maybe?

What i don’t like with this: this sneaky fucker has a lot more booze in it than i expected (i think) - ******* saisons!! i was thinking i’d blaze through a few Case Swap Beers while watching the footy tonight. Looks like i might be able to squeeze in 1 more now. *******!!
Mind you, great for listening to highlights of Trump’s acceptance speech! I’m nice and numb.
 
#11 - Reardo, Summer Ale

Appearance
Pale golden
Slight head, starts collapsing early
Moderate transparency, mild haze
Tiny medium lacing

Aroma
Sweet floral nectar, slight apricoty-caramel element.

Flava
Nice deep honey flaour.
Apricot element
Light bitterness, maybe a bit more on the sweeter balance. But still seems balanced
Sightly low carb, but i think good “mouth-carb” for this. Slight carbonic bite - again, not a negative for this. Probably helps balance the sweet/bitter aspect.
Slight maltiness
Generally good mouthfeel

Overall
Great summer Ale, reardo! Not a style i’m big on, but this is highly sessionable ale with a nice, light, but noticeable flavour. I reckon this has a fantastic balance between the malt-sweetness and the moderate bitterness - bang on! Bitterness level is great and lingers just enough to work well. Malts shine through a little more than the hops (partly as the "apricot" element is more subtle) - not sure if that’s what you were after. Personally, i’d say the carb level is also perfect - it’s something i struggle with, so big ups!
So basically, i think you’ve done a really great job with this as a Summer Ale. Actually quite impressed with the balance of sweet-dry-bitterness. I reckon the “apricot” element is coming from the hops... so I’d change the hops for a different element - not because this is bad, it works well if that’s what you like, just i prefer citrus/tropical or dank. However, i think you’ve nailed a basic grain grist and bitterness formula for this - just interchange the hops varieties to mix it up for the desired effect. Really well done !!!
(would love to see the recipe & primed carb level, btw!)

Great to compare this to Grainer’s Saison - similar light flavour/aroma(/malt grist?) but fairly different styles.
 
20. Mmmyummybeer fleku clone.
Nice beer mate. Tastes a lot like a dunkelweissen to me. A quick google search says its a Lager. Is that right? Anyhow, I like it. Fairly thin yet a nice amount of roastiness. Good work[emoji106][emoji481]
 
Also tried DJ's Dampfbier the other night. It took a couple of sips to get my head around this one but really liked it in the end. Dry as a witches tit but there was something about it that won me over by the end of the first glass. Nice beer Nath. [emoji106]
 
AJ's Oatmeal Stout. Another quality beer mate. All the bottles you pass around at the case swaps are delicious and this one really hit the spot on a cold night by the fire. Cheers AJ
 
Ha ha. Only had the fleku today. The others were during the week. Well they said "Drink Now"
 
4. AJs Oatmeal Stout

Pours jet black, with an ever so slight chocolate hue to it if I shine my phone across the side. Thin tight mocha ring of head with some minor glass lacing.
Aroma is quite subtle, it hasn't warmed up fully yet but there is faint roast there for sure.
Reasonably high carb for a stout? Or at least the mouthfeel has a slight bite to it as opposed to a rich smoothness, finishes dry which works well with the undertone of roast. Can't seem to identify the Oats effect in this beer?
Super clean ferment on this, did you use the West Coast MG yeast for this mate? It comes across as a super clean cold US05 ferment, maybe slightly more clean than I've seen US05 be.

This is a super drinkable stout, like sessionable af. Really enjoying it. It's not the kind of stout I look for when sipping by a fire (I like higher ABV, more choc and more roast), but on a Saturday afternoon as my first beer for the night it's rocking and I'm very glad I chose it. Thanks for sharing!
 
Curly79 said:
Also tried DJ's Dampfbier the other night. It took a couple of sips to get my head around this one but really liked it in the end. Dry as a witches tit but there was something about it that won me over by the end of the first glass. Nice beer Nath. [emoji106]
Thanks mate, glad you like it. Welcome to the world of Spalt hops [emoji12][emoji106]
 
Word of note: I cracked open a Wignall's Patersbier last night. Apart from being a stellar beer, it's been a bit too long in the bottle for my liking and is losing some character. Drink ASAP.
 

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