VIC 2016 Xmas in July Case Swap - TASTING

[VP Brewing]

 

[Grainer]

9. VP Brewing - Black IPA (102.75 in the MM specialty IPA comp. Bottled ages ago so hops have dropped off a bit so drink ASAP!)

​Woohoo found this.. It was labelled #1.... in the fridge now

 

[VP Brewing]

9. VP Brewing - Black IPA (102.75 in the MM specialty IPA comp. Bottled ages ago so hops have dropped off a bit so drink ASAP!)

​Woohoo found this.. It was labelled #1.... in the fridge now

Re-used a few lids from last swap. Label on the side should have been sound tho. Either way, happy days. Get into it!

 

[mmmyummybeer]

Really liked this beer JB. Probable not your traditional IPA with 45ibu the bitterness was a bit in the lighter side than I'd expect from a IPA, but I'm not really one for fitting into style guidelines anyway. Nice dark amber colour, carb a little low but no yeast at all in the bottle gives away that its forced carbed. Getting a little bit of age sweetness. But man so drinkable and delicious, balance of malt and hops spot on and super clean. Would of loved to have had this one fresh straight from the keg. Good job


Thanks wingman for the review. Thought it might of ended up light on carb. Sorry guys I ended up running out of time and force carbed and bottled it late.

 

[Grainer]

9. VP Brewing - Black IPA (102.75 in the MM specialty IPA comp. Bottled ages ago so hops have dropped off a bit so drink ASAP!)

Beautiful black/red hue, clear/not hazy, subtle aroma.. it is very cold.. was in freezer..gorgeous fluffy tight head almost like mouse (lol thats from the ice), nice pines aromas, resinous on the mouth, roasts subtle on the back of the palate, should be completely absent - maybe this is where you lost points? (maybe add dark grains at the end of the mash if you already didn't? Would be nicer drunk when it was fresh I am sure, cause the op aromas aren't there as much as I would have expected, bitterness is balanced with malts, but could do with a little more bitterness to cut though the back end sweetness, i'd increase the IBU slightly, would be better to find caramels on the back rather than roast for the style.. the increased bitterness will also help a lingering taste in the mouth and make the judges remember the beer as I am finding it tends to drop off, but hey.. it is easily drinkable. Medium mouthfeel, but I would prefer a little more crispness for my taste. Medium dryness. If this was mine Id dry to get that front end flavour to carry through and subdue the darker malts....hmm Im rambling .. I will stop now.

Overall a really good beer that could do with some slight tweaks to make it a great beer.. I have now judged a lot of IPA..IMO if you want to score better, make it a beer to remember.. get that longevity in the taste and remove the backend roasts..

cheers

 

[technobabble66]

#7 - Teninch Dampfbier, DJ_L3thb4lls

Appearance
Deep honey hue. Virtually no head. Slight medium lacing

Aroma
Has a “dry pils/lager” aroma, maybe more of a weizen aroma — white pepper? maybe herbaceous? Slight sulfur element, but not in a bad way.
So maybe it’s a white pepper (/weizen yeast) aroma mixed with a slight sulfurous aroma that i’m interpreting as a Eurolager-type element?
Slight sweetness underneath. Maybe slight wheat sharpness

Flava
Dry mild bitterness matched with a light malty sweetness. Malty pils coming through.
Slight earthy (maybe grainy) finish. slight lingering bitterness.
Slight carbonic bite, but lends well to style.
Carbonation is mild-to-moderate. I prefer low carb levels anyway, & i think the level here suits this style well.
Mouthfeel good - light but decent.

Overall
Awesome beer. No idea what a dampfbeir is - seems to be a crossover between a lightish weizen and a lager. This is a massively sessionable beer. I’m not a fan of wheaty beers, but this is great (i’m assuming it’s a weizen style).
Great subtle/mild elements contributed by the weizen aspect to improve the complexity, plus a nice light maltiness to it that comes out dry & crisp.
Big ups, dude. Great accompaniment to watching Angelina Jolie save the world in a tight outfit.

Ok. I know you want to hear it: it’s Totes Amazeballs!

For that i want to see the recipe. Cheers.

 

[Grainer]

#7 - Teninch Dampfbier, DJ_L3thb4lls

Appearance
Deep honey hue. Virtually no head. Slight medium lacing

Aroma
Has a “dry pils/lager” aroma, maybe more of a weizen aroma — white pepper? maybe herbaceous? Slight sulfur element, but not in a bad way.
So maybe it’s a white pepper (/weizen yeast) aroma mixed with a slight sulfurous aroma that i’m interpreting as a Eurolager-type element?
Slight sweetness underneath. Maybe slight wheat sharpness

Flava
Dry mild bitterness matched with a light malty sweetness. Malty pils coming through.
Slight earthy (maybe grainy) finish. slight lingering bitterness.
Slight carbonic bite, but lends well to style.
Carbonation is mild-to-moderate. I prefer low carb levels anyway, & i think the level here suits this style well.
Mouthfeel good - light but decent.

Overall
Awesome beer. No idea what a dampfbeir is - seems to be a crossover between a lightish weizen and a lager. This is a massively sessionable beer. I’m not a fan of wheaty beers, but this is great (i’m assuming it’s a weizen style).
Great subtle/mild elements contributed by the weizen aspect to improve the complexity, plus a nice light maltiness to it that comes out dry & crisp.
Big ups, dude. Great accompaniment to watching Angelina Jolie save the world in a tight outfit.

Ok. I know you want to hear it: it’s Totes Amazeballs!

For that i want to see the recipe. Cheers.

Its great to see guys stepping out into something different for the case swap.. IMO I think this is what it should be..create something unique and experiment with what you have never done before to give the guys a challenge to critique and enjoy.. kudos to you mate.. LEGEND !! DJ.. you have my vote for doing something different and challenging the norm!

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Thanks for the comments and feedback fellas! Some interesting stuff in there. Particularly that it confused some whether it was dry or sweet. It actually fermented out to 1.008 so definitely on the dry side, but I think the phenolics are playing around with what you get as you drink it. Held my nose and had a sip of it last night and it tasted like a straight up lager! I fermented the swap batch with WLP351 but also did a half size cube worth with WLP300 which I have on tap at the moment. I simple poured the WLP351 vial straight into the fermenter at pitch temp as it was a slight underpitch to encourage the ester development. Definitely prefer the WLP351, the WLP300 finished at 1.013 so it's not as crisp so has less of that effect with the phenolics versus crisp grist.

Essentially it IS a lager (grist-wise), but using a weizen yeast. I've shared the recipe below for those interested. Will definitely be brewing this again, may tweak the hops up a bit more because I've fallen IN LOVE with Spalt. Brewed an Altbier for Vicbrew yesterday and the smell during the boil was :icon_drool2: :icon_drool2: :icon_drool2: .

Teninch Dampfbier
Bohemian Pilsner (Dampfbier)



Batch Size: 44.00 l
Boil Size: 57.46 l
Boil Time: 60 min
End of Boil Vol: 50.96 l
Final Bottling Vol: 40.00 l
Fermentation: Ale (Wheat), Single Stage
Date: 19 Mar 2016

Equipment: 3V RIMS Rig - Double Batch
Efficiency: 75.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 83.5 %

Ingredients
6.50 kg Pilsner (Weyermann) (3.3 EBC) 69.9 %
2.80 kg Munich I (Weyermann) (14.0 EBC) 30.1 %

58.00 g Spalter [5.40 %] - Boil 45.0 min 15.8 IBUs
40.00 g Hallertauer Mittelfrueh [3.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 15.0 min 1.6 IBUs

Bavarian Weizen Yeast (White Labs #WLP351)
Pitched at 15-16C, let naturally rise to 20C, had to bump STC and heat belt on at warm to 18C to overcome a VERY cold night. Set STC to 20C after two days for rest of ferment. Did not cold crash but it did sit in fermenter for 3 weeks due to busy-ness (laziness). So was reasonably clear going into bottles.


Gravity, Alcohol Content and Color
Est Original Gravity: 1.050 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.012 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.0 %
Bitterness: 17.5 IBUs
Est Color: 9.2 EBC
Measured Original Gravity: 1.048 SG
Measured Final Gravity: 1.008 SG
Actual Alcohol by Vol: 5.6 % (inc. bottle carb ALC+0.5%)



Mash Profile
Mash Name: Single Infusion, Full Body
Mash In Add 27.25 l of water at 75.5 C 67.0 C 60 min
Mash Out Add 12.00 l of water at 100.0 C 76.0 C 10 min
Sparge: Fly sparge with 30.52 l water at 75.6 C

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

9. VP Brewing - Black IPA (102.75 in the MM specialty IPA comp. Bottled ages ago so hops have dropped off a bit so drink ASAP!)

Pours dark choc colour, coffee coloured thin tight head. Slight lacing of the glass.
Aroma is slightly sweet and clean, unfortunately that's about it but as mentioned was bottle a while ago and the hops have dropped off.
Bitterness is firm, clean and well backed up by the carbonation. Tastes like a good undertone of roast, I can't pick up anything else that 'stands out', which I'm taking as this is a very well balanced beer.
As this warms up the roast is coming out at bit more and is a touch "clingy". I love roast so it's not an issue for me but I know it can upset some who are a bit more sensitive to roast.
Am enjoying it very much mate, wouldn't have believed this is 7.5% if it wasn't written on the label. Thanks for sharing

 

[Grainer]

12. heyhey - ESB - Ready to drink

Not carbonated, so I will critique as is for now.. Clear, amber flat, small amount of eeprvesence,medium bitterness, alcohol presence. Unfortunatly it isn't ready so every thing is not right..I will try carb up the rest of the bottle and drink another time..

Everyone hold off on this one for now in case they are all about the same carb level.

 

[VP Brewing]

Cheers for the feedback Grainer and DJ_L3ThAL!
This is the second time I have brewed this. The first time all of the dark malts ( midnight wheat and carafa1) went in at the start of the mash and it was MUCH more roasty. This time I upped the midnight wheat to 4.3% and reduced the carafa1 to 2.3% and they were added at mash out. Interestingly only one judge out of 4 mentioned roast at all on the score sheets and he just said 'subdued roast'. Might have a go at cold steeping them next time.
The hops I sort of winged it a bit with what I had. There was no 60min hops at all. For the 44L batch 50g each of motueka and centennial at 15min. Both cubes had 50g motueka, 50g centennial and 25g chinook. The swap beer was dry hopped with 2.5g a litre each of motueka and centennial.
I'll keep brewing it with small tweaks here and there.
Cheers.

 

[Grainer]

Cheers for the feedback Grainer and DJ_L3ThAL!
This is the second time I have brewed this. The first time all of the dark malts ( midnight wheat and carafa1) went in at the start of the mash and it was MUCH more roasty. This time I upped the midnight wheat to 4.3% and reduced the carafa1 to 2.3% and they were added at mash out. Interestingly only one judge out of 4 mentioned roast at all on the score sheets and he just said 'subdued roast'. Might have a go at cold steeping them next time.
The hops I sort of winged it a bit with what I had. There was no 60min hops at all. For the 44L batch 50g each of motueka and centennial at 15min. Both cubes had 50g motueka, 50g centennial and 25g chinook. The swap beer was dry hopped with 2.5g a litre each of motueka and centennial.
I'll keep brewing it with small tweaks here and there.
Cheers.

See if you can remove the roast flavours 100% the style guidelines say NO roasts.. and we both picked it up..cheers

 

[Grainer]

22. TheWiggman - Patersbier

Hazy straw with little to no head. Sweet pear aroma is very appealing. Nice light beer VERY fruity.. would be good on a hot day.

 

[technobabble66]

#9 Black IPA - VP Brewing

Appearance
Jet Black
Tan small head. the 1mm that’s there is tight.
Slightest bit of light that gets through it indicates it’s clear, but the blackest red.
2nd pour - perfect tight tan head.

Aroma
Dank citrus, maybe element of pine to join it together nicely.
Perfect aroma for this, IMO (maybe just needs moar of it!)
Maybe tiny malt & caramel element poking through also.
No roast aroma

Flava
Solid bitterness, definitely with malt and a tiny roast choc hint. Citrus-pine & hoppy resin shines through a moderate amount. Again, to nail it i’d just go more hops. MOAR!
Carb is moderate - but i’d say it’s great for this. Mouthfeel is nice and full. Dryness-sweetness balance is also great for this. With the roast, i’d say it’s only the tiniest element, but on the positive i’d say there's almost no astringency that’s come through with it. TBH, by about halfway through i’m struggling to pick up any roast.

Overall
VP, i’ve had a few Black IPAs before and this is definitely one of the best. Just as it is. TBH, i’d say it’s fantastic in all the tricky ways. The only slight detraction is the really simple one - the amount of hops! (as you’ve already stated). Grist, hops combo, mash schedule, dryness, carb levels, bitterness, colour - all perfect. It’s really great as is, but to make it a Rip Snorter i’d maybe crank your hops a bit more - maybe more in the 20mins mark and shiteloads in dry.
I appreciate the style guidelines definitely specify no roast element. This has possibly the tiniest amount that’s still detectable - especially as i could not pick it after the first half a glass! I think this is one of those things where you need to wonder if you want an awesome beer, or something that is best to style guidelines and will win comps. I personally would say the guidelines for Black IPA are simply wrong - i think it’s ridiculous to have a black IPA without *any* roast elements. I LIKE roasty elements. If i didn’t want them, i would pick a different colour IPA. Duh!! I appreciate they should probably be minimal for this style (otherwise it’s an American Stout, hey!), but i personally think your beer is perfect as is, just crank the hops a bit more and it’ll be the most awesomest Black IPA.
The perfect accompaniment to watching Tom cruise over and over and over again. Fantastic brewing, dude!

EDIT: saw your post above - no idea what the moteuka is doing in there - i wonder if you could do just Centennial + Chinook? But as stated, awesome combo as it is, it appears.

 

[TheWiggman]

Hey Curly79, have you tried a bottle of your stout? My bottle here is tight as. Is it supposed to be (or is there a chance of it being) heavily primed?

 

[technobabble66]

#9 Black IPA - VP Brewing
......
...I appreciate the style guidelines definitely specify no roast element. ...

Actually, fwiw VP, i just reread the 2015 BJCP Style Guidelines. I could be wrong, but it reads like it's actually fine to have a tiny bit of roast in there.

"[SIZE=9pt]Style Comparison: [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]Balance and overall impression of an American or Double IPA with restrained roast similar to the type found in Schwarzbiers. Not as roasty-burnt as American stouts and porters, and with less body and increased smoothness and drinkability.[/SIZE]"
"[SIZE=9pt]Overall Impression: [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]... – but without strongly roasted or burnt flavors. The flavor of darker malts is gentle and supportive, not a major flavor component. [/SIZE]"
"[SIZE=9pt]Aroma: [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt].... Very low to moderate dark malt aroma, which can optionally include light chocolate, coffee, or toast notes. [/SIZE]"
"[SIZE=9pt]Flavor: [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]... although dark malts may contribute to the perceived bitterness. The base malt flavor is generally clean and of low to medium intensity, and can optionally have low caramel or toffee flavors. Dark malt flavors are low to medium-low; restrained chocolate or coffee flavors may be present, but the roasted notes should not be intense, ashy, or burnt, and should not clash with the hops. ... The finish may include a light roast character that contributes to perceived dryness, although this is not required. ...[/SIZE]"

So basically, i stand corrected with my comments - it seems like it might fit within the guidelines from the way it tasted to me last night. (& you could forget half the diatribe in my earlier post :lol: ).
I'd guess maybe the roast elements were a lot stronger and less mellowed a month or 2 ago at the MM IPA comp(?).
I know for my darker beers, they always seem a little jarring for the first 6-8 weeks, then mellow nicely by ~week 8-12. Which of course is rather tricky in an IPA style where you're trying to maximise the pop of the hops.
Happy to stand corrected on all this, btw.

Otherwise, i'd say it's awesome as it is :icon_cheers:

 

[TheWiggman]

9. Black IPA - VP Brewing
First black IPA. My tastebuds are back in order. On opening, it was 99% pine - pine, pine Christopher Pyyyyyne. Unlike the others I immediately picked up the alcohol, which contributes well to both flavour and mouthfeel. It's slick and velvety. Hop flavoured but not balls-and-all bitter hops, it's on the less assertive end which for mine suits. Not much malt coming through but in general not heaps of anything really, it all makes for a balanced, warming and hoppy brew which suits this drizzly evening well. Good drop.

 

[Curly79]

Hey Curly79, have you tried a bottle of your stout? My bottle here is tight as. Is it supposed to be (or is there a chance of it being) heavily primed?

Hi wiggman. I've tried 2 bottles already and it was pretty well carbed. I just primed each bottle with a scoop of sugar. Give it a go if you like mate

 

[TheWiggman]

Good to hear, just wanted to know whether or not it was a potential bottle bomb.
Already had a 7.5% longneck on a Monday, up at 5:30 AM... tomorrow maybe

 

[Curly79]

I'm hearing Ya. Let me know how it goes [emoji106]