Proposed Tax Changes

[BrenosBrews]

http://www.theage.com.au/national/tax-shak...00116-mdj1.html

One maybe slighty positive thing;

"The final report to the Federal Government from its Preventative Health Taskforce also recommended a ''rationalised tax and excise regime for alcohol that discourages harmful consumption and promotes safer consumption''." Surely microbreweries fit into that???

 

[Goofinder]

"The final report to the Federal Government from its Preventative Health Taskforce also recommended a ''rationalised tax and excise regime for alcohol that discourages harmful consumption and promotes safer consumption''." Surely microbreweries fit into that???

Nah, it looks like they are just doing it blindly on alcohol percentage:

The Sunday Age believes that in an acknowledgement of the health and social costs inflicted by alcohol abuse, Treasury has proposed a stepped approach, with tax rates progressively increasing according to alcohol content. The thresholds are believed be 3.5 per cent, 5 per cent, 7 per cent, 10 per cent, 15 per cent and 22 per cent.

Meaning any micros who brew bigger and more interesting beers will have extra tax added on top, so we'll have to pay even more.

 

[Spartan 117]

Bugger it, I say we stage a coup. Anyone with me. Also given that wineries are given certain tax exemptions would the new tax not apply to them.

Aaron

 

[Fents]

Quote "Small wineries receive generous tax concessions, which have been blamed for propping up uneconomic businesses and encouraging a grape glut, yet micro-breweries must directly compete with multinationals such as Fosters and Lion Nathan."

Yea no **** sherlock. Give us a break already!

 

[jbowers]

That is the worst idea ever. How many binge drinking beer drinkers actually consume beers over 5% anyway? Carlton, VB, Tooheys etc etc....

I don't remember the last time I saw a guy getting 'munted' on an 11% DIPA.

 

[The Mad Hopper]

More shortsighted policy from the federal government. Totally agree with jbowers, but then again, how many MPs do you think would know that nobody is going to binge on an 8% Imperial Stout. To them, beer is the stuff that Lion Nathan and CUB serve up. "Strong" beer to them is a 4.5ish% heavy. While we need excise reform, maybe the government should actually think before proposing policy this time.

Don't microbreweries get a 60% excise rebate if they produce less than 30000L? Personally I think that excise should be scrapped for all small producers (beer, wine, whatever), and 30k L isn't much, but at least it's something that could be built on.

 

[The Mad Hopper]

... actually, how many MPs do you think know that these beers even exist?

 

[jbowers]

... actually, how many MPs do you think know that these beers even exist?

Haha, good question. I'd wager not many.

the 30,000l cut off seems small. I wonder what somewhere like Mountain Goat or Murrays puts out?

 

[winkle]

What ever they do, you can guarantee it'll end up costing consumers a lot more money (and send the binge drinkers further down market - pssst! wanna buy a still?).

 

[bum]

Bugger it, I say we stage a coup. Anyone with me.

THIS IS SPARTAN 117!!!

 

[Bribie G]

The main thrust of the legislation will be to get rid of wine casks which the more upmarket wineries have been lobbying to get rid of for years. This legislation is all about the wineries and you can bet there's a lot of political clout with many politicians and business leaders either dabbling in hobby vineyards or knowing someone from their old private school who does so. Craft brewers on the other hand are more working class and arent' called Tarquin or Alisdair or Ralph pronounced Rafe. (As opposed to Ralph)

 

[jbowers]

The main thrust of the legislation will be to get rid of wine casks which the more upmarket wineries have been lobbying to get rid of for years. This legislation is all about the wineries and you can bet there's a lot of political clout with many politicians and business leaders either dabbling in hobby vineyards or knowing someone from their old private school who does so. Craft brewers on the other hand are more working class and arent' called Tarquin or Alisdair or Ralph pronounced Rafe. (As opposed to Ralph)

No more goon?!?! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!

 

[bum]

There'll still be far too many goons about, sadly. h34r:

 

[kook]

This legislation is all about the wineries and you can bet there's a lot of political clout with many politicians and business leaders either dabbling in hobby vineyards or knowing someone from their old private school who does so. Craft brewers on the other hand are more working class and arent' called Tarquin or Alisdair or Ralph pronounced Rafe. (As opposed to Ralph)

What a load of toss :lol:

Craft brewers (like small winemakers) come from many different backgrounds. Has nothing to do with being working class, or not having a toffy name.

If you actually want to succeed as a solo proprietor you need a good business mind - I think you'd be surprised to find out the background of a lot of small commercial brewers (in particular in the US and more recently the UK).


PS - the (founding) head brewer at Meantime is called Alastair (another of the founders was called Lars).

 

[T.D.]

Quote "Small wineries receive generous tax concessions, which have been blamed for propping up uneconomic businesses and encouraging a grape glut, yet micro-breweries must directly compete with multinationals such as Fosters and Lion Nathan."

Yea no **** sherlock. Give us a break already!

Interesting quote, and as usual with these things, is ignoring some important facts. The tax exemption in the wine industry is only for small producers, who in my view are far from the largest contributors to the grape glut.

And in fact, unless the rules have changed I am pretty sure there is a fairly decent excise rebate available to breweries who produce under a certain quantity every year. The rebate is something like 60% so nothing to sneeze at.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

so instead of writing a post to AHB - write a letter to your MP and let them know that its not as simple as they probably think it is. You're preaching to the converted here... make the noise somewhere it might make a difference.

T.D. - that generous rebate to micros is only for very very small amounts, on the order (IIRC) of the first $10,000 of sales. Meant for the mad hobbyist who gets a license so he can sell his beer to his mates, not for anyone actually running a business. No one is sayig tht the small wine producers shouldn't get a rebate - just that small brewers should get the same sort of thing.

 

[dig]

No one is saying that the small wine producers shouldn't get a rebate - just that small brewers should get the same sort of thing.

That's the nub of it Thirsty. I posted this earlier today on a wine forum:

Not timely, but appropriate. If booze is the problem, tax the booze the same whether it's wine, beer, alcopops or cough medicine. If little producers get a break, make it the same for little producers of wine, beer, alcopops or cough medicine. Job done. Isn't that what makes Australia different from everywhere else? The egalitarian ideal of a fair go for all? Or have we already reached the point where 'some animals are more equal than others'.


I suspect I'm in for a bit of stick.

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

I suspect I'm in for a bit of stick.

I don't think so. I keep taking criticism from my wife and some friends for not Doing The Work and convincing Them (the tax department in their many guises) that I should be able to brew and sell some of my output on the understanding that it is basically a hobby... Just like the guy next door who has a small vineyard and produces about as much wine in a year as I can drink can do.

But, because it is Beer...

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

Interesting quote, and as usual with these things, is ignoring some important facts. The tax exemption in the wine industry is only for small producers, who in my view are far from the largest contributors to the grape glut.

And in fact, unless the rules have changed I am pretty sure there is a fairly decent excise rebate available to breweries who produce under a certain quantity every year. The rebate is something like 60% so nothing to sneeze at.

TD is the wine exemption , just that an exemption ? Where as the micro brewery pays its tax and then wait till June 30 to get it back . There appears to be a lot of difference between the way the tax's are dealt with. And 30,000L of beer is not a lot of product going on ABV tax systems in place.If given a choice atm its a better investment to go as a wine producer.
GB

 

[technocat]

TD is the wine exemption , just that an exemption ? Where as the micro brewery pays its tax and then wait till June 30 to get it back . There appears to be a lot of difference between the way the tax's are dealt with. And 30,000L of beer is not a lot of product going on ABV tax systems in place.If given a choice atm its a better investment to go as a wine producer.
GB

Not sure about being a better investment Nev. Many wine grower's are reporting over production and falling prices in the market. Some are talking up pulling vines out and creating shortages to boost a better return.
Seems like the old story you are damned if you do and damned if you don't. As for a change in the the excise laws which are a complicated shambles you can bet your arse the only winners will be the government or am I just being a cynical critic of a treasury looking for new ways to increase their tax grab.

<_<