'Craft' beer tax to be Fed Election issue

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stm

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Feldon said:
Forget climate change, gay marriage and Putin-bashing; this should be the political battleground of the next Fed Election.
Exactly! Something important that helps businesses grow, create employment and create wealth.
 

JDW81

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TheWiggman said:
I get that alcohol is taxed because by and large alcohol is a huge issue in society. Drink driving, alcoholism, domestic and public violence, a drain on the health system etc. so making it less affordable theoretically reduces the impact that this will have.
I work in a public hospital emergency department. Was there in the wee small hours of Saturday/Sunday/Monday morning.

Treated a stack of people who were well lubricated with various ailments. None of them had been drinking "craft" beer. Quote from one young fella. "what have you been drinking mate"? "Cartlon fuckin draft doc, best beer in the fuckin world". In fact I've never seen a drunk person who has ended up in ED cause they drank a stack of "insert favourite craft beer here".

I don't think altering the way small producers are taxed will change the social problems caused by alcohol.

I would like to see the little guys get a fair go though.

JD
 

WarmerBeer

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It would be a totally different emergency situation if you had young guys coming in yelling "West-fuckin-vleteren 12, doc. Best beer on fuckin beeradvocate, doc"
 

JDW81

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WarmerBeer said:
It would be a totally different emergency situation if you had young guys coming in yelling "West-fuckin-vleteren 12, doc. Best beer on fuckin beeradvocate, doc"
True, but I don't expect I'll be seeing that any time soon though.
 

mtb

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All that hop oil would put them to sleep long before the real shenanigans began anyway..
 
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wereprawn said:
I really doubt the huge alcohol tax slows down hardcore pissheads anyway . Just less food on the table ect, for their children .
The same logic applies even more so for the tarheads. I've never smoked and have compelling personal reasons to despise the habit and tobacco. But I'd protest any further increases in tobacco taxes. It is on the table from time to time.
 

Sidney Harbour-Bridge

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Stouter said:
With the reportedly rising influence of minority parties maybe there's an opening for something like the Fishers Shooters Farmers Party.
We could call it the Crafties Brewers and Pissheads Party.
Have you approached SFFP about joining them, they may be supportive of adding a "B" for brewing to their name but probably not the "P"
 

Yob

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BKBrews said:
The problem is the excise is payable upon packaging the product, prior to even a single bottle being sold - so it's super hard for startups to get off the ground with these huge up-front outlays.
not exactly true.. you can, with a LOT of wrangling go to a monthly based excise system where its taxed on sales
 

malt junkie

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The problem being if I were say to start a "Brewers Party" and put up banners etc, all you bastards would turn up with kegs, bottles of RIS and a gerry rigged 1000L system to brew on. :D


I know first world problems :huh:
 

BKBrews

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Yob said:
not exactly true.. you can, with a LOT of wrangling go to a monthly based excise system where its taxed on sales
I actually read up on that yesterday - very interesting.
 

malt junkie

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I would note this is the only industry I can think of that hasn't reduce packaging size (the 50L keg) for manual handling reasons. We've all done it and seen it. Hell I was working a large Leagues Club in 2005 and the boys(including my self) would shoulder a keg to take it to particular locations. Most pubs and clubs still to this day handle these things by hand and usually one person. This is partly why my back is screwed. So just on safe work practices the excise should be inverted. Then again all the FED cares about is keeping the big players happy and ensuring they're raising revenue.

Any change to packaging sizes would have to be implemented over years(many) purely due to proliferation of what is currently a standard throughout the world. A 20L keg would fit the bill nicely, weighing in at or under the 25kg, and I note would also serve the home brewer. Lets face it the corny keg is currently only being made for the home brew space and new costs a small fortune. If we were using the same standard keg as every other brewery including the big boys; our kegs and associated fitting would be more widely available and their for cost less.

Quite interesting that an industry flaunts one law to remain in line with another. But this is the point, until such time as the excise laws are changed, the industry will remain stuck in the past.
 

wynnum1

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20L kegs would only be OK for small clubs if high turnover would be become a pain and if your carrying full 50 L kegs may need to look at getting equipment to move safely.

I'm not very smart, but I can lift heavy things
 

klangers

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Cornelius kegs are actually made for the post-mix soft drink market. Ie the machines in maccas. The corny kegs hold the syrup and this is blended with carbed water.

Corny kegs have lots of room for improvement if one was to optimise them for beer and pub use. The massive opening on top - while convenient for home brewers to see inside, it is a leak risk that reduces the lifespan as they're hurled around off delivery trucks etc. The flow cross section from dip tube to post is far too small for pub use.

I would see the existing 30 L kegs (https://goo.gl/images/RfRNL3), which are just shorter versions of the 50L, as being ideal to switch too as no one needs to change their disconnects or filling heads.

Indeed; 50L/55kg is small enough to be tempted to move manually, but too large to do so safely (for the vast majority of folk).

Moving back to bulk tanks (>200L) or moving to smaller kegs would remove this issue.
 

n87

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Post mix has come in bladders in cardboard boxes for quite a long time now. working at Maccas 15 years ago, they were more than well established.
Not sure how the rest of the world is, but the cardboard box takes up less room for the same qty, are able to be stacked and dispensed in any orientation and you dont need to store empties. it would suprise me if anywhere in Aus still used cornies for post mix
 

mash head

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Yob said:
not exactly true.. you can, with a LOT of wrangling go to a monthly based excise system where its taxed on sales
Not that much wrangling, but you do need to have all your stock insured because if the beer goes missing or up in smoke the govt still want their excise.
 

malt junkie

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wynnum1 said:
20L kegs would only be OK for small clubs if high turnover would be become a pain and if your carrying full 50 L kegs may need to look at getting equipment to move safely.

I'm not very smart, but I can lift heavy things
If your job is cellarman, and your working in a cellar built well before I was born, there's no room to move let alone bring some equipment. grow up, your mouth would have you picking your teeth up from the side walk in some bars . As for a pain, name one other item sold whole sale to the retailer that weighs more than 25kg unless it's on a pallet
 

DU99

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some of the older pubs had below ground cellars which had exits to the street ..they had a slide type system to lower the barrels down..no fancy gadgets in those days..even the tapping system on large kegs have changed over the years,and some states had kegs that you would lay on there side and tap in the centre :icon_offtopic:
 

wynnum1

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malt junkie said:
If your job is cellarman, and your working in a cellar built well before I was born, there's no room to move let alone bring some equipment. grow up, your mouth would have you picking your teeth up from the side walk in some bars . As for a pain, name one other item sold whole sale to the retailer that weighs more than 25kg unless it's on a pallet
Hand Push Beam Trolley
 

malt junkie

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wynnum1 said:
Hand Push Beam Trolley
The way kegs are moved in industry is actually to tilt onto one edge holding the cap on the coupler head in a balanced position and then to roll. Was well aware of your trolley idea, they're great when and where there's room to use them. And your high and mighty "you should follow WHS you **** wit" attitude just goes to show your young age because these laws and rules are comparatively new and in my day it was "harden the **** up and get the job done or look for another job".

DU99 said:
some of the older pubs had below ground cellars which had exits to the street ..they had a slide type system to lower the barrels down..no fancy gadgets in those days..even the tapping system on large kegs have changed over the years,and some states had kegs that you would lay on there side and tap in the centre :icon_offtopic:
A lot still have these hole in the street delivery systems with 4 old car tyres at the bottom. Occasionally it'd get a bit exciting down stairs if a keg hit the edge of a tyre. :blink:
 

klangers

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malt junkie said:
And your high and mighty "you should follow WHS you **** wit" attitude just goes to show your young age because these laws and rules are comparatively new and in my day it was "harden the **** up and get the job done or look for another job".
To be fair on wynnum, he didn't know you were a cellarman. I don't feel he's being high and mighty - it came across to me as trying to be helpful.

But yes, looking at some of the older pubs' cellars makes it clear as to how painful it would be to move kegs about! As you say the older pubs in Sydney still have the old tyre system still in action. Ironically it'll probably be an injury to a pedestrian from a wayward full keg that'll cause the system to be reviewed, not the cellarmen's crook backs :huh:
 

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