Proposed Tax Changes

[lukiep8]

Who needs goon when you can get 3ltrs of Frosty Jacks for 15 bucks... oh yeah!

 

[Trent]

Haha, good question. I'd wager not many.

the 30,000l cut off seems small. I wonder what somewhere like Mountain Goat or Murrays puts out?

the 30,000L equates to one 600L batch a week (with 2 weeks holidays!). I have no idea about Mountain Goat, but I know that Murrays brew 1200L batches and Hunter Beer Co brews 600L batches. Both brew more than once a week, so are ousted from any excise exemptions. They are probably typical of most microbreweries, I would assume. Basically, I think the 30,000L is a bit of a joke, but I don't really see the law changing.
I do hope that I am wrong, though!
Trent

 

[///]

Haha, good question. I'd wager not many.

the 30,000l cut off seems small. I wonder what somewhere like Mountain Goat or Murrays puts out?

MG would probably pass 30,000 in less than 4 weeks, theres is a 18HL brew length ... we did 7200l of production last week ... another 6000l planned this next week.

Scotty

 

[bum]

So would it be correct to assume this figure is aimed at businesses like brew pubs? Breweries that don't sell any packaged beers, just on premises stuff?

 

[T.D.]

TD is the wine exemption , just that an exemption ? Where as the micro brewery pays its tax and then wait till June 30 to get it back . There appears to be a lot of difference between the way the tax's are dealt with. And 30,000L of beer is not a lot of product going on ABV tax systems in place.If given a choice atm its a better investment to go as a wine producer.
GB

Nev, don't quote me but I believe the WET rebate for small wine producers is not an exemption per se, but more a rebate, so these producers pay the WET, but then get it back later.

So is the Micro rebate for producers of under 30,000L? That's the kind of thing I had in the back of my mind but its been a while since I looked at it so can't be sure.

As much as 30,000L per year isn't huge, it is one 600L batch per week. Personally I think it would be great if we saw a lot more of these sorts of brewers turning up.

But yeah, as Thirsty Boy said, a system where small brewers got the same kind of tax break as small wine producers seems fair. Something like that would be a great thing for beer in general.

 

[///]

So would it be correct to assume this figure is aimed at businesses like brew pubs? Breweries that don't sell any packaged beers, just on premises stuff?

We dont sell packaged, but do do contract additional to our own. If your not selling 30 kegs a week even if a brew pub then your going broke in most places. Its a redundant clause in the law ...

 

[bum]

Ah. Thanks for the info.

I was including kegged but served on other premises as packaged but your last point negates that anyway.

Cheers.

 

[daemon]

What I think they should have done with the whole "alcopops" thing is to strongly encourage cans / bottles that are exactly one standard drink. They're mostly sugar anyway, so I doubt many would pick the difference in flavour. This way at least counting drinks etc is controlled and easy. Instead, the brain dead ministers have forced people back to buying 700ml bottles and mixing it themselves. This is where the problems occur anyway, especially once people have had 3 or 4 drinks, the coke nearly becomes non-existent.

I'll be writing a letter to my local member tomorrow, hopefully if enough people do the same then it will help. I know it would be hard to do, but I'd like to see more of a distinction between "megaswill" and craft beer. I think because most craft beer has body and flavour to it, it actually discourages drinking larger amounts. I'd also like to see more encouragement for lower alcohol beer, ie it'd be great to buy a variant of the English Milds here in Australia rather than just watery lager when driving etc.

While the USA isn't perfect in many regards, you can't help but envy their craft beer market and the number of breweries. It'd be great to have a 10th of the craft breweries they do, especially a lot more localised breweries in each area. Unfortunately at the rate krudd keeps taxing things I can't see it happening

 

[rwmingis]

I'm waiting for them to start taxing me on my 23L batches, the bastards...

 

[Cortez The Killer]

Excise and beer manufacture - Claiming a microbrewery refund

http://www.ato.gov.au/businesses/content.a...page=28&H28

Cheers

 

[matthendry]

The US excise Tax System is set up in a simmilar way where you pay a volumetric tax .

Small brewers do get a tax breaks and pay a different rate of excise than large brewers you also have to pay State excise taxes which make you pay taxes on based the Alcohol % Range but its still a volumetric tax.

http://www.ttb.gov/beer/tax.shtml

 

[HoppingMad]

... actually, how many MPs do you think know that these beers even exist?

There'd be one. Sophie Mirrabella MP.

According to her website:

My electorate in north-east Victoria has ski resorts, important winery regions, the largest concentration of micro breweries and great historic places.

She'd be aware of the micros and what they do because she has to count on their votes. Unfortunately she's not in government though - she's a shadow minister. So no point in lobbying at her doorstep.

Unfortunately at the moment we have a govt that has spent plenty of stimulus cash and looking for ways to claw it back. Excise is an easy path for them. Surprised that Tobacco and Gambling hasn't taken another hit, but I'm sure that's coming too.

Hopper.

 

[lukiep8]

The other thing about WET, is that wine is taxed based on the price set by the winery, and the tax isn't based on the alcohol. With how cheap it is to produce wine (with the costs involved being the mass manufacture, and the maintenance of the vines), wine can be cheap as shit, pay no tax on it.

I can produce a "Delicious Cabernet Sauvignon", and if I can sell it at 1 dollar a bottle and make my money back on it, I pay 29% WET on 1 dollar...

Beer on the other hand is taxed based on alcohol, amongst other things. Then to add to that, the base costs on beer is all about how much breweries pay for their malts, hops, yeast, etc. etc.
So costs are higher already to produce beer compared to wine, then they are lumped with ridiculous tax, so they don't make money.

 

[reVoxAHB]

... actually, how many MPs do you think know that these beers even exist?

Actually, there's a few (and numbers growing). Take a look at the supporters column at far right of A Fair Go for Craft beer.

reVox

 

[komodo]

The main thrust of the legislation will be to get rid of wine casks which the more upmarket wineries have been lobbying to get rid of for years.

This does NOT make sence. More and more of the biggger wineries are going to BIB sales for pubs and resturaunts as its lower environmental impact, cheaper to package, cheaper to transport, smaller shelf size and longer life/lower waste. You'd think the psuedo hippy tree hugger range rover driving winery owners would think about the environment...

Maybe its because their "boutique" winery doesnt have the facilities to cask their wine for the hospitality industry. Or perhaps their outlets only sell by the bottle, not by the glass (thus encouraging "binge drinking" perhaps?).

 

[The Mad Hopper]

Actually, there's a few (and numbers growing). Take a look at the supporters column at far right of A Fair Go for Craft beer.

reVox

Pleasantly surprised! Good on them though. So often you hear politicians rabbit on about supporting small business, but here are a few who are actually going out and throwing their support behind something that could make a real difference.

And yes, even though I don't know how much it will help, I will be writing a letter to my local member.

 

[Count Vorlauf]

Good luck to anyone trying to make a living for themselves with a brewery that makes 30,000 litres a year - much less pay any employees. The 30000 litre cut off is a joke.

The volumetric tax seems like a good idea on the surface. The current excise regime is a dog's breakfast where sake is classed as wine, and brandy is taxed less than other spirits because... ? Wine is taxed by volume and everything else by ABV. Who knows how they're scaling this system, though? The big guys will just work around it (e.g. VB dropping 0.2% over the past year or so).

That said, seeing this pass without some sort of similar concession for small wineries seems farfetched. Too many MPs represent regions where wine tourism is a cash cow they don't want to see slaughtered. Here's hoping that this presents an opportunity for small breweries to make the case that they are in the same boat.

Check out the Fair Go website that ReVox linked to. Contact your MP. Kay Hull, in particular, has been active on behalf of craft breweries. Make the case you're making here on this forum.