VIC-Xmas 2016 Case-Swap Recipe (Cocko's place)

[JB]

yep im on board for hops as well ..
and reckon JB will be too ..currently on holidays ..lucky *******

x2

micbrew

Awesome thanks Mick, yep me too please Yob. If i get eaten by a croc beforehand donate mine to next on list.

 

[Yob]

Ive put aside 1 kilo of SG..

no dice on Hallertau MF though, will see if I can score some of that green next week

 

[malt junkie]

Bad news, gave my HX a look over today, leaks, issues, pump issues and no time to get sorted. Can someone else chip in with a HX?

 

[TheWiggman]

Done.

 

[Yob]

Bad news, gave my HX a look over today, leaks, issues, pump issues and no time to get sorted. Can someone else chip in with a HX?

I can bring mine, but its VERY undersized for this and power will be aproblem, runs like a gun with an immersion element in it as well..

what power capacity will we have?

was a gennie going to make it there?

 

[Yob]

I'm still very unsure of what equipment we have and what we still need..

 

[MartinOC]

I can bring my HX & pump, but they'll need mounting somehow (I'll have a think about it).

I can also bring a gennie for extra power, but it doesn't have an awful lot of grunt.

I reckon we just need lots of pumps, hoses & camlock fittings to jerry-rig up whatever we need to do. We'll just make-do with what we have available.

 

[Yob]

Brewers Gold .7kg = $28 $25
Hallertau MF .7kg = $33 $30
Styrian G 1kg = $35 $30

Total cost hops - $85 / 24 = $3.55 each approx for single cube

 

[TheWiggman]

I'll round it up to $3.75 for you Yob, I'm feeling generous.

Right so we have 150kg grain in the recipe and we're looking at mash-in of 2.5l/kg? That's 375l of mash liquor, including grains we could probably get away with Idzy's two 275 litre eskies (one of which still requires a manifold).

Extrapolating from my system, we'll need shitloads of power if step mashing.
More technically, 1500W is ok for stepping 20 litres so for an equivalent ramp rate you're roughly looking at 28kW. That's a few power points, 12 to be precise pulling full current and smashing the power bill.

4 x heat exchangers (~2kW each?) will adequate to maintain mash temps but step mashing will be a bit of a doozey. At a minimum we're looking at 4 x 10A power points for the mash. If required I can legitimately borrow some fittings from work but I'm hoping we'll be able to assemble some manifolds on the day out of spare parts in our systems. We'd need -

• 2 x tees
• 4 x M/M nipples
• A spare ball valve or two
• Camlocks/fittings to suit your pump suction

Running 2 x pumps in parallel off each esky is workable I think, it will definitely get us up to mash temp and will fit in between WamerBeer's said palavering. Alternatively we could split in to three eskies and do an infusion to mash out using the HLT. I know what I prefer, something we could toss up on the day.

I apologise if I'm coming off as patronising, I haven't assisted in a case swap and am throwing my thoughts into the ring.

 

[technobabble66]

I'm still very unsure of what equipment we have and what we still need..

Yeah, trying to get onto it.
I might need a PM or 2 from those that have prepared these recipes before. TBH, i have no idea how to estimate the gear we're gonna need, so i was hoping to find a list of what was used at the previous CS Brews - namely the 2015 Xmas in July (this is essentially going to be the same as the Wee Heavy effort).
So if anyone has the gear list (i assume it was a group PM at the time?), could they please PM a copy of it to me.

Otherwise, i'll have to guesstimate it myself :unsure:

What roughly have system losses been on these rigs? ~20%?
Is the rule of ~1L lost per kg of grain correct for MLT losses, or does the weight of the larger bulk of grain minimise this?

I'm estimating we need roughly: 462L into cubes, plus ~20-50L lost in bottom/trub, plus ~40-100L boil-off, plus ~150L grain absorption. Total of ~800L needs to be obtained after the mash & sparge.
All kettles need to be gas, as electricity will be at a premium for running the pumps (& HEX's) - does anyone have a gas HEX?

-------
Currently i'm assuming we need roughly:

1-2 grain mills (preferably w motor/drill)
3 large mashtuns, enough to fit 150kg grain, say 3x200L. (so i'm assuming 50kg per 200L MLT is ok)
2 pumps
Idzy's massive 500L kettle + burner (cheers, Adam!!)
at least 1x 200L kettle (could be smaller - needed for a side boil) + burner
preferably another 200L kettle (extra heating for HLT water, could also be smaller) + burner
2-4 HEX's to help keep MLT water at temp & mashout.
truckloads of hoses & cam locks (i'm assuming if everyone just brings some, this'll work out.
Several (large) gas bottles - no idea of the gas usage of the required burners. (plus water bath to prevent gas freezing)
------------------------

So first up, we need to determine what we need, then form it into a list, then see who can supply it.



EDIT: form idzy's post#164:
"Posted 02 November 2016 - 10:56 PM

Fellas, I have made a few calls, pulled a few favours, spent a few dollars and can confirm that I will be bringing the following gear:

• Kettle (600 litres) - gas fired
• White MLT (275 litres) - need to build a manifold
• Blue MLT (275 litres)
• White MLT (155 litres)
• HLT (180 litres) - gas fired - need to build a stand
• HEX (internal/external element) with 2x STC-1000 - 2x20amp req'd

Cheers,
Idzy"

So as wiggas just mentioned (snuck his post in before me, great minds think alike B) ), if idzy's white MLT is up & running, that'll probably have us sorted for MLT's; and if his HLT is also up & running, that leaves us with probably 1 other large kettle to source (for the side boil).
... So basically, if Adam rocks up with his gear, we're 90% there. Yay for Idzy!!

 

[technobabble66]

FWIW, i believe we've avoided step mashing on previous efforts by an ingenious method of have 1 or more of the mash tuns at alternative mash temps. EG: if you wanted something like a 63/67/70°C for 20/60/20mins mash profile, you could do the biggest MLT at 67°C, and the smaller 2 at 63°C & 70°C. I believe we tried it at one of the gigs in '14 or '15 and it worked a treat. I vaguely recall Yob might've been involved in that one, so he might be able to clarify the details.
But that way, we can avoid any step mash shenanigans.

 

[technobabble66]

And fwiw, the recipe calls for a single mash step of 64.4°C (fkn °F conversion!), then mashout at 76°C; so we probably don't even need to stress about a complicated mash profile really.
If the HEX's can ramp us up to 76°C for 64-65°C then great, otherwise we could just mash at 64-5°C, drain it, then sparge with 78°C water.

 

[technobabble66]

I'll try to attach my 2 current spreadsheets of the recipe, both large scale & individual cube:

The large scale recipe:
View attachment Westvleteren 12 clone, 1.1 (large scale).xls


The individual cube:
View attachment Westvleteren 12 clone, 1.2.xls

Note, the system details are not adjusted, other than for ~75% extraction, also the hops quantities will need to be adjusted for whatever the AA% is of the stuff Yob is supplying (Thanks again for obtaining those, Jesse!!)

 

[malt junkie]

Brewers Gold .7kg = $28 $25
Hallertau MF .7kg = $33 $30
Styrian G 1kg = $35 $30

Total cost hops - $85 / 24 = $3.55 and a bottle of RIS each approx for single cube

FTFY

 

[Yob]

FWIW, i believe we've avoided step mashing on previous efforts by an ingenious method of have 1 or more of the mash tuns at alternative mash temps. EG: if you wanted something like a 63/67/70°C for 20/60/20mins mash profile, you could do the biggest MLT at 67°C, and the smaller 2 at 63°C & 70°C. I believe we tried it at one of the gigs in '14 or '15 and it worked a treat. I vaguely recall Yob might've been involved in that one, so he might be able to clarify the details.
But that way, we can avoid any step mash shenanigans.

The divine thumb.. Yes we did exactly that, worked well and allowed us to seal our mt's with a little ots work first..

 

[Curly79]

View attachment 93116
Correct me if if wrong but I thought that 1 little HX and OTS element did the job for the winter case swap brew?

 

[Curly79]

Correct me if if wrong but I thought that 1 little HX and OTS element did the job for the winter case swap brew?

 

[MartinOC]

Stu,

Word to the wise - keep this KISS as possible (for your own sanity as much as anything else!). You're head-honcho on this one, but it doesn't need to be perfect, so don't strive (or stress) for it. We're having fun & making beer - that's all that really matters.

Single infusion for target @ 65C across all the MT's (kinda thick). Adjust & maintain with periodic infusions of boiling water & much stirrage-action (which we can do no problems), or maintain with HX's (if we have them available). If there's variation, just go with it - RDWHAHB. Mash-out with boiling water.

The rest is transfers, which is gear-dependent & we can swap & change things as-required.

We can work all this out over a few bevvies on the Friday night (as long as Adam doesn't drink too much & come up with 20 different ways of achieving the same end-point.... ).

The rest gets worked-out on the fly & it always ends well, so don't try to over-think it. You've got lots of experienced CS brains available to pick & we'll all help out.

All you have to do is make decisions & tell people what to do....... :chug:

 

[technobabble66]

Stu,

Word to the wise - keep this KISS as possible (for your own sanity as much as anything else!). You're head-honcho on this one, but it doesn't need to be perfect, so don't strive (or stress) for it. We're having fun & making beer - that's all that really matters.

Single infusion for target @ 65C across all the MT's (kinda thick). Adjust & maintain with periodic infusions of boiling water & much stirrage-action (which we can do no problems), or maintain with HX's (if we have them available). If there's variation, just go with it - RDWHAHB. Mash-out with boiling water.
......

Yeah, trying to KISS as much as possible ... er :unsure: ... that sounds a bit more wrong than intended ... BUT, yes, trying not to complicate things too much.
However, i just wanted to make sure we're at least going to get the minimal amount of gear required to do the brewing - namely the basic numbers of 3 MLT's, 1 more kettle/HLT than Idzy's, a HEX or 2 - and to check if that WAS a reasonable guesstimate of requirements.
And to kinda open the discussion so all you other CS brains can chip in anything else that's relevant

Yeah, i think mash-in to 65°C for a single step, drain & sparge at 78°C.

One thing i'm not 100% sure on is some of the sundries to the recipe - salts, yeast nutrient, anti-foaming agent, and whirlfloc.
Can you bring these, Martin? And if so, do you know how much roughly we need? If not, does anyone else have a guesstimate?

(EDIT: For the salts, i'm thinking, split evenly between ~400L Mash & 400L Sparge: roughly 60g CaCl2, 30g CaSO4, 20g MgSO4)


Actually, one other reason was to kinda document this process + setup into a findable thread in AHB - i searched high and low, and there's no mention of these simple details that i could find (and replicate for this brewing session, *********!!).
So for future organisers of these setups, i thought it'd be handy to have something they could stumble across that might provide an example of a cobbled-together, ~500L, Case Swap Brew Day set-up.

 

[Mayor of Mildura]

Something to bear in mind when scaling up recipes is hop utilisation. I notice your spreadsheet doesn't allow for this. I've had issues with bitterness going from a recipe for 20l to 120l so i assume going to 500l will also be an issue. Last year at Bandicoot Grant allowed for a 10% increase in his recipe and it seemed pretty spot on to me.