VIC-Xmas 2016 Case-Swap Recipe (Cocko's place)

[Yob]

Cubists

1. Cocko - ...
2. Idzy - DIPA/Pliny, Complicated thing
3. Technobabble66 - Saison/Kolsch, Porter/Stout, Hoppy thing, (Anything really)
4. AJ80 - Happy to go with the consensus
5.VP Brewing - DIPA/Pliny, Complicated thing. Happy to get my hands dirty and help out with the brew on the day
6. Grainer - DIPA/Pliny, Complicated thing
7. Nullnvoid - SMASH, just kidding, happy with whatever, after all, it's all beer right? who's with me?
8. DJ_L3THAL - Kolsch
9. Micbrew fence sitter pliny / Caledonian porter
10. JB - DIPA/Pliny, Complicated thing
11. MartinOC - Triple-decocted Inter-Continental Ballistic Nuclear Penguin (see above).
12. Black n Tan
13. Mofox1 - OC Caledonian Porter
14. breakbeer
15.Whiteferret
16. Mudd
17. GrumpyPaul
18. Camo6
19. Yob - - DIPA/Pliny - It's been long enough..
20. Siborg
21. Midnight brew
22. Mardoo - OC Caledonian Porter

Reserve cubists
1. TheWiggman
2. Jburke
3. mmmyummybeer
4. mayor of milder - Moar hoppy.
5. awesome fury
6. malt junkie
7. WarmBeer - Gruit
8. droid
9. Reardo
10. thearn

 

[jburke]

Hopefully this works better.
Cubists

1. Cocko - ...
2. Idzy - DIPA/Pliny, Complicated thing
3. Technobabble66 - Saison/Kolsch, Porter/Stout, Hoppy thing, (Anything really)
4. AJ80 - Happy to go with the consensus
5.VP Brewing - DIPA/Pliny, Complicated thing. Happy to get my hands dirty and help out with the brew on the day
6. Grainer - DIPA/Pliny, Complicated thing
7. Nullnvoid - SMASH, just kidding, happy with whatever, after all, it's all beer right? who's with me?
8. DJ_L3THAL - Kolsch
9. Micbrew fence sitter pliny / Caledonian porter
10. JB - DIPA/Pliny, Complicated thing
11. MartinOC - Triple-decocted Inter-Continental Ballistic Nuclear Penguin (see above).
12. Black n Tan
13. Mofox1 - OC Caledonian Porter
14. breakbeer
15.Whiteferret
16. Mudd
17. GrumpyPaul
18. Camo6
19. Yob - - DIPA/Pliny - It's been long enough..
20. Siborg
21. Midnight brew
22. Mardoo - OC Caledonian Porter

Reserve cubists
1. TheWiggman
2. Jburke - DIPA/Pliny
3. mmmyummybeer
4. mayor of milder - Moar hoppy.
5. awesome fury
6. malt junkie
7. WarmBeer - Gruit
8. droid
9. Reardo
10. thearn

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Can I change to Pliny? I never got to try it properly, had a sip of one of idzys lasts bottles at one of the swaps after. Am intrigued!

F Kolsch, I'll make one at home [emoji12][emoji12][emoji12]

 

[technobabble66]

Looks like it's a choice between:
1) OC Caledonian Porter
2) DIPA/Pliny

Maybe just limit choices to that from here on.
(Which only currently applies to me & Martin. And WarmGruit).

Edit: mind you, still heaps of time to come up with a "complicated thing" - given neither the Porter or DIPA are really that complicated.

 

[technobabble66]

Could we do a DIPA version of the Caledonian Porter?
[emoji185]

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Koala Scat..... nevermind.

 

[technobabble66]

Well, it's at Kangaroo Grounds ......


Caledonian Kangaroo Double India Porter, FTW!!

Just with a little more kangaroo than people are expecting

 

[MartinOC]

Just for clarification & for consideration/discussion: You guys thinking of the 6.5%-ish version that got Vicbrew 1st in Porters a couple of years ago (also my case-swap submission), or the 10%-ish one that got multiple prizes over many years?

Be warned: The big ******* takes YEARS to become even remotely drinkable, so we're talking a long-term proposition here...

 

[TheWiggman]

Caledonian Chilli Roo...

 

[mofox1]

I was thinking the swap beer Martin. I'm too much of a grasshopper to wait for those bigguns :lol:

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Yeah the swap version. Not sure how I would have tried the big barstard when I didn't know you many years ago [emoji12][emoji106]

 

[MartinOC]

I know I said I wouldn't get involved on this one, but I got inspired by Wiggman's magnificent Patersbier from the last swap & the wheels started to churn with ideas......This is ONLY an idea - feel free to shoot me down & go in a completely different direction. It's not my baby this time.

Assuming we'll be using the same set of equipment (a mix of Idzy's & Whiteferret's gear) plus bits, I reckon we've been going about it the wrong way. Bear with me here, I'm gonna brainstorm a bit....

Rather than do one BIG main-boil & use Wayne's 205L boiler as a side-boil, do it the other way around:

Create a MASSIVE Belgian with home-made candi-sugar (made as a side-project by a dedicated team of flame-proof stirrers ) in Wayne's 205. I'm thinking the OG would be off the scale & would be divvied-up into one of DJ Lethal's mini-cubes.

If you get one of them (by lottery), you pay premium for it & gives Nathan the opportunity to sell some cubes to those that don't already have them. The intent is that it would be diluted to something more reasonable for fermentation. By "reasonable", I'm thinking about 1080-1090.. :chug:

The remaining wort (& leftovers from the first boil - & I mean EVERYTHING - trub, hops & all) goes into Idzy's big boiler for a Patersbier. Assume about 10% utilisation from the "spent" hops & add/adjust bittering from there. A long boil will cause the originally-coagulated proteins to break-down back into solution to create body for a light beer, which everyone else gets a full 20L cube of, at regular price.

'Dunno how "light" it'll be, but we get what what we get. Great way to build-up a sufficient yeast population for a batch of those lucky enough to score one of the "scorchers".

It'd need a bit of juggling between mash-tuns & pumping etc., but that's not my worry this time 'round. Someone else is taking the helm.. :lol:

0.02c

EDIT: Is that a sufficiently complicated brew-day/regime for those that want to complicate things?

 

[MastersBrewery]

I like the idea Martin, with a small change up, we raffle the first brew, profit to man charrity (prostate cancer, mens shed,etc .. cocko choice)

 

[idzy]

I like the idea of making candi syrup. I was talking with mofox1 about this the other week. My idea was to do the Westvleteren 12 as the main brew and then add the candi syrup from the side boil...

The key here is that the plans seem exciting, which all these ideas are, compared to just doing a simple 3 malt brew.

 

[technobabble66]

Big & exciting sounds fun.

However, 2 minor points:

1) Recommendations from the many of the more experienced brewers who do these big belgians indicate it's generally better to add the sugarz during the fermentation, rather than starting the fermentation at full gravity. Which means it's better to keep it separate from the wort until then. May be less of an issue - if we all bring a 1L glass vessel, we can just get some from the syrup pot on the day.

2) Have you tried to make the syrup before? Take it from me, it's probably the most extreme case of what sounds easy on paper being much more tricky in practice that i've come across in brewing.
There's many different ways to do essentially the same basic process - all with different pro's & cons & there seems to be no definitive guide of which general path is best, let alone a specific guide (e.g.: source of sugars, invert or not, use acid or not, use base or not when to use it, what temps to hit, what peak to reach, etc, etc), and everyone has an opinion and theory as to what's best, complicated by the issue that most (me included) don't necessarily have enough experience or knowledge to really have much clue in the first place.
Aside from all that, however, my main concern is the boiling syrup can easily get out of control. In a pot it's easy to drop the heat if required. In a large vessel it won't be the case - remember those boil-overs in the massive kettle at Yob's place in the 2015 Case Swap - i'm concerned we might have similar scenes but with hot sticky (flammable) syrup. On the plus side, larger volumes of syrup are generally easier to maintain consistent temps due to the large heat mass, however given we will be flying a little blind on this, the down-side is if we lose control of it, it could go very pear-shaped.
The final issue is quality control - the bottom line is i think you need to do a pretty good job with the syrup to get it close to the real thing. Chances are we're going to end up with some pretty 2nd-rate burnt sugar that leaves a slight astringent bite in the beer. I normally think we have a very good chance of making beer that's equal or close-to-equal of any professional brewery. I'm concerned that this isn't the case with the syrup - it's much harder to achieve a standard similar to what $15-20 buys you from the Belgain Candi Syrup manufacturers.

I really don't want to be a wet blanket, but i have extreme reservations on the value of doing the syrup aspect of the brewing.
So maybe it's best to look at the base wort on the day - it'll still be moderately versatile for anyone who doesn't want the full W12 result (just brew a dark ale of some sort) - and anyone who wants to do the full W12 can either do their own version of the syrup, or just get some at G&G.

Happy to be corrected on the large-scale syrup production, but i obviously have serious doubts on it working out well.


(That aside, i'd be keen to do the base wort for the W12, by the way :super: )

 

[MastersBrewery]

The only issue with W12 is yeast, fresh yeast cake, and O2 has worked well in the past, but I should have used a bigger fermenter.

 

[TheWiggman]

Brew a Patersbier then throw the big beer on the cake - done.

 

[MartinOC]

Brew a Patersbier then throw the big beer on the cake - done.

That's exactly what I was thinking.

 

[technobabble66]

Quick update/revival on this.

It basically seems to come down to either:
1) Westvleteren 12 clone (as the "complicated thing")
2) Pliny the Elder clone (as the 1° DIPA option)

------------------
So, to clarify:
Westy 12 clone = per cube: ~9kg grain (Pils & Ale), + ~1.5kg D180 Belgian Candi Syrup.
Pliny clone = per cube: ~6.5kg grain (Ale, Light Crystal, CaraPils), + 0.34kg Dex
------------------
The Pliny clone simply needs a staggering amount of hops in it, and comes out to a face-peeling bitterness.
Big enough that a second runnings could be done as a light APA.

The Westy 12 could have a few options to complicate things.
One is a decoction - not sure how that'll work on a large scale like this, but might be doable. I'd probably be tempted to just sub in a little Melanoiden and skip this step. Or do a smaller decoction plus use the Melanoiden.
The second is the caramelisation reduction of the first runnings of the wort - this we could do, and i think we should.
Third is try to make some candi syrup on the day - this i think will be a disaster, and i'd rather see if the Clever Brewing guy could source a large batch/BB of D180 from CSI and just add it to the cube cost.
Also definitely big enough that a second runnings could be done as a light ale or APA.
------------------


I personally think the Westy 12 is the better option.
The Pliny is great, but very simple - both appealing and boring. It's also pretty much just going to be a DIPA, as almost all hops go into the boil, so we're stuck with massive IBUs & hoppiness (not a bad thing, but not versatile if others want another option for their cube)
The Westy 12 can be almost anything, as going into the cube will be a more lightly hopped super-strong Pils/Ale malt wort - the syrup can be added during fermentation, and this is what i'd go with for this recipe. Those who want to go for the Belgian options can either buy the syrup or make their own. Those who want something else can put different hops into the cube. Yeasts are similar - no D180 but use belgian yeasts = strong Blond, English yeasts = Wee heavy-ish, Old Ale, etc.. Dilution to 30L is also an option, and again, make it into whatever you want, Saison, etc.
The Westy 12 also has the main option of doing a side-boil for caramelisation - which worked well for the Wee Heavy last year.
The decoction may be too tricky, as the large mass of grain will burn on the bottom of the kettle - it'll most likely be too difficult to keep such a large mass stirred & moving. I'd opt for the Melanoiden option and keep this bit simple.
The syrup boil is very very risky and highly likely to produce bad syrup. I'd avoid this. If you're keen, i'd suggest just doing it at home on the smaller scale. OTOH, if some want to have a crack on the day, they could always BYO sugarz & set it up themselves. I'll stay well away myself!


Thoughts?



FWIW, I'd def vote for the Westy 12. (Just with some Melanoiden & the side-boil.)

 

[JB]

I was all for the Pliny, but I really do like the sound of changing things up with including some of the decoction / melanoiden / caramelisation reduction / candi syrup processes

Westvleteren 12 clone

1. technobabble66
2. JB

Pliny the Elder clone