When is the best time to adjust the pH of the mash

[Ckilner]

Got myself a nice new Hanna pH meter today so I can now measure everything!
My tap water has a pH of 7.4 and I have a bag of gypsum at the ready. When do I add it to reduce the pH to get it to 5.2? To the water before I add the grain? After I add the grain? etc. etc.

 

[warra48]

pH of your water is not the important issue.

The important issue is the pH of your mash, so the time to adjust the pH of your mash is as soon as you have mashed in.

I'd be interested to know how many brewers on here actually measure and adjust the pH of their mash. I'd venture to say there are many who have never done so, and that includes me.

 

[Ckilner]

As you can probably gather, I've never done it before either but I've watched videos of master brewers who say how important it is to hit 5.2

 

[Yob]

pH of your water is not the important issue.

The important issue is the pH of your mash, so the time to adjust the pH of your mash is as soon as you have mashed in.

I'd be interested to know how many brewers on here actually measure and adjust the pH of their mash. I'd venture to say there are many who have never done so, and that includes me.

I do sometimes now waz, I did until I worked out what was needed for the house grist, I worked out that some acidulated malt I'm my pales / IPA's got me there.. Nowadays I check every so often.. A tsp of 5.2 if I can be arsed and some cal sulphate is normal water addition.

I wonder how many people make any adjustments to sparge water...

Ed: typo

 

[Ckilner]

I was going to try the Five Star Stabilser 5.2 as it looked like the magic answer to everything but then I read various articles on the Internet that said it was OK in certain circumstances where the water was quite close to the pH to start with. If it was too far out then adding more 5.2 affected the taste of the beer and had little effect on the pH. I read in Graham Wheeler's book that he recommends adding Gypsum to adjust the pH

 

[Dunkelbrau]

I'd love to, but I read conflicting opinions on the strips vs very expensive meters. I would also like to get one of those 5 or 6 stage water setups that also includes reverse osmosis as I'm a bit concerned about boil off and concentration of fluoride, especially with the amount of beer I drink when I have a full keezer!

 

[///]

The pH of the water does not matter, it is the calcium and carbonate content that does. If you get a water report I can help intepret.

Basics are calcium binds with phosphorous in the malt to make phytic acid, which drops the pH. You will have residual calcium in your water, the levels affect how much you add in obviously.

Calcium is also thermo protective of the malt enzymes, aids in trub formation and is a nutrient to the yeast, so there are other good reasons to use it. As is also obvious, the type of calcium compound used accentuates malt or hops.

I hate strips, a $10 ebay pH meter is better than those. Also, your water can and will change in composition over time (aka after rain or with no rain)

Scotty

 

[Dunkelbrau]

The pH of the water does not matter, it is the calcium and carbonate content that does. If you get a water report I can help intepret.

Basics are calcium binds with phosphorous in the malt to make phytic acid, which drops the pH. You will have residual calcium in your water, the levels affect how much you add in obviously.

Calcium is also thermo protective of the malt enzymes, aids in trub formation and is a nutrient to the yeast, so there are other good reasons to use it. As is also obvious, the type of calcium compound used accentuates malt or hops.

I hate strips, a $10 ebay pH meter is better than those. Also, your water can and will change in composition over time (aka after rain or with no rain)

Scotty

Whatever sydney water delivers to my area.. I found this report on their website stating Penrith on the page to pick which report you want to see, is this the kind of thing we are after?

http://www.sydneywater.com.au/web/groups/publicwebcontent/documents/document/zgrf/mdq0/~edisp/dd_044726.pdf

 

[mmmyummybeer]

It all depends on your water and type of beer, darker grains will lower pH as well. If your waters fairly soft then a carbon filters good to remove the chlorine, The problem with RO is it basically removes everything and you need minerals in the mash.

I find for a general start is to add Calcium Chloride as its good in all beers to increase the Calcium and adds to the malty flavours.
Gypsum to hoppier beers, to accentuate and smooth hop flavours.
Calcium Carbonate to darker beers as it will increase pH.
I also find a little acidulated malt good for lighter beers.

Water pH doesn't tell you much as it all depends on the mineral content in the water and hence buffering capacity.

I personally rather add my mineral salts to the water before I start.

Sorry but don't think mineral additions are as simple as adding some gypsum until the mash hits 5.2, especially when you brew a malty style beers.

John Palmer is probable the best on this matter and recommend his how to brew book.

 

[Dunkelbrau]

It all depends on your water and type of beer, darker grains will lower pH as well. If your waters fairly soft then a carbon filters good to remove the chlorine, The problem with RO is it basically removes everything and you need minerals in the mash.

I find for a general start is to add Calcium Chloride as its good in all beers to increase the Calcium and adds to the malty flavours.
Gypsum to hoppier beers, to accentuate and smooth hop flavours.
Calcium Carbonate to darker beers as it will increase pH.
I also find a little acidulated malt good for lighter beers.

Water pH doesn't tell you much as it all depends on the mineral content in the water and hence buffering capacity.

I personally rather add my mineral salts to the water before I start.

Sorry but don't think mineral additions are as simple as adding some gypsum until the mash hits 5.2, especially when you brew a malty style beers.

John Palmer is probable the best on this matter and recommend his how to brew book.

The only reason i was looking at RO was the fluoride reduction overall, and they arent that expensive to install for regular drinking water needs either. If i could remove it from my beer it would be great, however, i'd rather remove it elsewhere if it would negatively effect the brewing.

 

[mmmyummybeer]

Sorry now see what you mean, would be much better if they didn't put it in at all but guess that's a whole other argument.

 

[treefiddy]

I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion, and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids!

Edit: on topic - You would need to drink over 5 litres every day and swallow your toothpaste to approach levels worth worrying about. I guess if you're drinking that much per day some other health issues may be more of a problem for you (such as loss of essence).

 

[benno1973]

I don't mess with the mash once the grain is added, but I do use salt additions in the HLT prior to mashing in, and I use a pH meter to check that I'm in the ballpark.

 

[Ckilner]

I have just done a quick test. My water pH was 7.4 and I read that boling it and then letting it cool would reduce its Ph. It's now 8.5 !

 

[Dunkelbrau]

I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion, and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids!

Edit: on topic - You would need to drink over 5 litres every day and swallow your toothpaste to approach levels worth worrying about. I guess if you're drinking that much per day some other health issues may be more of a problem for you (such as loss of essence).

that PDF I linked stated 1mg/litre

I could smash a couple of litres with dinner, that's 2.2mg.. Imagine how much on a bender (2.2 because of 10% concentration from boil off)!

Each to his own, I personally would rather not consume it in my beer if possible as its in water, toothpaste and god knows what else, we can't accurately monitor our absorbsion levels as calcium, magnesium and all sorts change it.

 

[Ckilner]

so. Do I adust the pH of the water and then test when the grain has been added and then re-adjust again at each brew until I get the pH near to 5.2?

 

[Pickaxe]

Have a read of the threads in the Water category, we've been discussing this lately. You'll be doing more than just improving the mash by adjusting the pH, and can tinker with the flavour profile of your beer. I have recently started and its making a dramatic to the quality of my beer.

You actually want to hit 5.4 - 5.6 at mash in due to temperature adjustments (you are aiming for 5.2 at 20 degrees.).

I'd recommend EZ Water Calculator spreadsheet (Google it) or Brun's Water. Both pages have information about water profiles and mineral salt additions. EZ Water calc will help you find out how much you will need to add of Calcium, Sulphate etc... to get to the right mash pH.

Dont mean to insult you but did you make sure your gypsum is food grade? ie. from a brew shop or a health food store?

 

[Ckilner]

Yes, I've been following the threads but got a bit lost in the detail. The gypsum I have is from the brew shop so I hope it's ok.
I'll look a the EZ Water Calculator spreadsheet and Brun's Water. I'm sure with a bit more study I'll catch up. Thanks

 

[Pickaxe]

I have just done a quick test. My water pH was 7.4 and I read that boling it and then letting it cool would reduce its Ph. It's now 8.5 !

Ignore this completely. Unless you are taking the pH of the mash you are just confusing yourself. Water pH has little to do with it, it is the mineral content of your water which will define what your mash pH will be.

Read these for a start:

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/74575-water-a-dirty-secret/
http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/73309-ph-mash-adjustments/

Manticle has written a great article on water too, and has other info. You could PM him, but it is linked in the threads above.

Good luck with it, you will improve your beer.

 

[Pickaxe]

When I started:

Get your water profile.

Enter info into EZ Water Calc.
It will tell you or help you figure out what you need to add.
Have on hand - Gyspum, Calcium Chloride and maybe lactic acid (esp for hoppy pale beers)
Make additions as per spreadsheet to water.
IE. Get you levels of Calcium, Zinc, Magnesium and Sulphate to an appropriate level through additions. (I'm only focusing on calcium and sulphate right now in my brewing as they are deficient in my water profile. Zinc and magnesium are for yeast health FWIK, and my yeast are always healthy, so i ingnore that. Lactic acid is to drop pH if grains and salts wont do the job enough for you. Some use acidulated malt instead in the grist, which does the same job, pops some acid in.)

Mash in.
Check pH
If it matches EZ water Calc - WINNING like charlie sheen. (Mine did)
If it's off, allow for this "bias adjustment" next time you use the spreadsheet and add more or less.
Mash, take pH, drink beer, repeat, until you get it to where you want it.