When is the best time to adjust the pH of the mash

[Ckilner]

When I started:

Get your water profile.

Enter info into EZ Water Calc.
It will tell you or help you figure out what you need to add.
Have on hand - Gyspum, Calcium Chloride and maybe lactic acid (esp for hoppy pale beers)
Make additions as per spreadsheet to water.
IE. Get you levels of Calcium, Zinc, Magnesium and Sulphate to an appropriate level through additions. (I'm only focusing on calcium and sulphate right now in my brewing as they are deficient in my water profile. Zinc and magnesium are for yeast health FWIK, and my yeast are always healthy, so i ingnore that. Lactic acid is to drop pH if grains and salts wont do the job enough for you. Some use acidulated malt instead in the grist, which does the same job, pops some acid in.)

Mash in.
Check pH
If it matches EZ water Calc - WINNING like charlie sheen. (Mine did)
If it's off, allow for this "bias adjustment" next time you use the spreadsheet and add more or less.
Mash, take pH, drink beer, repeat, until you get it to where you want it.

Thanks. I'll go and try this and report back. Cheers.

 

[manticle]

Some simple stuff

1. mash pH is important, water pH less so (been said but worth reiterating). However it is good to know what is in your water, especially if it is really anywhere near 8.5. There might be stuff that needs filtering or precipitating so water pH is not useless, just not what you are ultimately trying to manipulate to 5.4.

2. Mineral adjustments will only help to a point. If mash pH is too high, you may also need to look at acidification.

3. Mineral adjustments also need to take into account the existing mineral content as well as the type of beer being made.

4. Mash pH will depend on the grist composition as much as anything else.

To answer your question above though - For the first beer: hydrate and stir till all grain is mixed. Measure the pH. Adjust with some salts/acid and measure again in ten minutes or so. Measure again at the end of the mash. Measure the pre- and post boil wort.

This is only to give you an idea. Once you are reasonably au fait with your recipes and water, you can predict where it will fall and what to add to which beer and you can either just measure once (when the grain is mixed thoroughly) or again if you make any adjustments.

Probably wise to take more measurements every so often to check you are on the right path but no need for that many every time. That's just to get your head around how it all works.

Take a look at mineral content and its effects on beer flavour and yeast health. Have a look also at mash pH and its effect on yeast health and enzyme activity. They're two distinct but related issues and mineral content will affect mash pH a bit.

 

[Ckilner]

thanks all. Great advice to keep me busy for the next few brews. Every brew is a new adventure!

 

[///]

Any reason for 5.2? I prefer 5.4-6 for my beers

5.2 encourages more ferment able wort and one that is more easy to extract sugars from. So great for light dry lagers.

 

[pyrosx]

Read this...

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Mash_pH_control

 

[Pickaxe]

And I defer to manticle. Op, he helped with many questions I had when I entered into water chem, and I'm reaping the benefits. Drinking my first water adjusted ag brew now and I can say it's a a MASSIVE improvement. My earlier brews were muddy and confused. I can perceive a difference from tasting the fermented wort, the yeast activity has improved, and now my 4 week old in the bottle motueka ale is proving to bybe by far my finest. Is like wearing glasses you've needed for years improves your vision. Clarity. The way mouthfeel, bitterness.and carbonation work together now is worth the work alone, let alone increased efficiency, better aroma, better malt and hop flavor. The finish on my beer is 1000 times better.

 

[Pickaxe]

It's not going to make a **** brew better, but to say, to borrow manticle's analogy, that is like properly seasoned food is absolutely correct, and we all know the difference of any meal cooked well but lacking seasoning. I'm not only converted, I'm preaching like a born again. You'll never look back. Keep asking questions, keep trying, is another world of learning, but more than worth it. Not discussed enough in my view.
Water is the biggest ingredient, best we pay it the proper attention.

 

[Pickaxe]

Any reason for 5.2? I prefer 5.4-6 for my beers

5.2 encourages more ferment able wort and one that is more easy to extract sugars from. So great for light dry lagers.

5.2 is the ph needed, but temp adjusted it becomes 5.4 from what I understand. Ie. 5.2 @ 20 degrees, roughly 5.4 - 5.6 at mash temps. But as you say , horses for courses, haven't delved that deep yet, I defer to those that know. Be happy to hear more on ph for style. Any info guys?

 

[Ckilner]

I've just been on the water suplier's website and found the analysis of my tap water. Which of these should I address?
I'll have a go a feeding it into the EZ Water Calc spreadsheet
[SIZE=small]Parameter Units Average[/SIZE]
[SIZE=small]Ammonium mg/l NH4 <0.009[/SIZE]
[SIZE=small]Calcium mg/l Ca 138[/SIZE]
[SIZE=small]Chloride mg/l Cl 39.3[/SIZE]
[SIZE=small]Chlorine (free) mg/l 0.26[/SIZE]
[SIZE=small]Chlorine (total) mg/l 0.41[/SIZE]
[SIZE=small]Fluoride mg/l F 0.258[/SIZE]
[SIZE=small]Hardness: Total mg/l Ca 152.8[/SIZE]
[SIZE=small]Magnesium mg/l Mg 9.46[/SIZE]
[SIZE=small]Manganese µg/l Mn <1[/SIZE]
[SIZE=small]Nitrate mg/l NO3 0.855[/SIZE]
[SIZE=small]Nitrite mg/l NO2 <0.005[/SIZE]
[SIZE=small]Nitrite/Nitrate [/SIZE] [SIZE=8pt]0.017[/SIZE]
[SIZE=small]pH (Hydrogen ion) pH value 7.64[/SIZE]
[SIZE=small]Phosphorus µg/l P/l 583[/SIZE]
[SIZE=small]Sodium mg/l Na 25.4[/SIZE]
[SIZE=small]Sulphate mg/l SO4 140[/SIZE]

 

[Ckilner]

Fed the numbers into the EZ Calculator and got an estimated mash pH of 5.87 for a 25l mash with no sparge. I've added 3g Epson Salt which brings the Magnesium into Palmer's recommended range. All the other values are already within range but my pH is still too high.
If I add 30g Gypsum then the pH goes down to 5.45 but the mash water profile ends up at 411mg/l which according to the calculator is out of range by 260mg/l. Does it matter it's out of range or is it more important to get the pH down?

 

[brewtas]

Get your additions sorted so you're in the range for each one, depending on what you're trying to do. From your water report it doesn't look like you really need to add anything unless you're aiming to alter the chloride/sulfate balance. Definitely don't add 30g of gypsum unless you want to drink plasterboard. Once you've got your water additions sorted, you can then adjust the pH with acidulated malt or lactic acid to get it in the sweet spot.

 

[doon]

Yep I find 100g of acid malt usually brings the ph into range

 

[Ckilner]

I thought about adding some Epsom salts to bring the magnesium up to 25mg/l
My aim is to brew a very light Citra hop beer. I like the idea if adding acid malt. Not sure where to buy lactic acid though - it's not available at my online brew shop.

 

[brewtas]

It's either acidulated malt or lactic acid, not both. Have a search for the acidulated, it can also just go by acid malt or sauer malt/malz.

I wouldn't worry about the magnesium, you're right on the edge of 10ppm and the barley itself will contribute some so you're all set there.

 

[manticle]

With the water: Knock out the chlorine and any temporary hardness (carbonate). Unfortunately that report does not suggest what 'hardness' refers to. Slightly permanent hard water is OK, temporary hardness is not so great and they are different (confusing I know).

You can filter your water using a reverse osmosis filter to get rid of chlorine and carbonate hardness. Activated carbon filter will remove chlorine. Boiling uncovered and allowing to sit should remove free chlorine and allow carbonate to precipitate out. If chloramines are added to the water, boiling will remove some, RO filter will remove all. Sodium metabisulphite/campden can also be used to knock out chlorine and chloramine (won't affect carbonate hardness).

Don't worry about adding any magnesium - malt will provide what you need. I wouldn't be adding any more sulphate either - under 150ppm unless you are really trying to push bitterness. (Again if you go down the RO filter route, you will essentially have a blank slate so you can start from scratch - in that case add calcium sulphate to get calcium and sulphate levels right).

I'd leave mineral additions alone completely unless you end up using an RO filter and removing what is there. Acidify the water/mash instead. Lactic, phosphoric, citric or other food grade acid or acidulated malt.

Pickaxe mentioned an article I wrote earlier. Here is the direct link to the attached file (need to download it from the link) - it focuses a bit on Melbourne water in some sections but you can extrapolate. http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/46120-ahb-articles-water-chemistry/?p=950414

 

[Ckilner]

I've read a lot about RO systems. Is this worth considering?

 

[manticle]

With that water? Yes I would say so. I'm fortunate enough to have a very soft supply.

 

[Ckilner]

Yes, with the water I posted earlier. As you say, it gives a clean slate. Is it worth the investment though I wonder - not cheap as I recall.

 

[manticle]

Best get advice from someone who has one. If you are struggling to make decent beer using the water you have and if you get a quality unit that lasts then I would consider it worthwhile.

Making substandard beer despite doing everything else right is depressing. How have your beers been so far without worrying about pH?

 

[Ckilner]

To be honest, I'm so new to AG brewing that I have no history. I've done a few brews now but none have been spectacular but I'm working from the ground up. I'm trying to cover all technical aspects so that if the brew fails there's only one point of failure - ME