The Way Forward
- Thread starter Hopeye
- Start date
Help Support Australia & New Zealand Homebrewing Forum:
Weizguy
Barley Bomber
WTF? :blink: :huh:
I must have been snoozing, coz when I woke up there was a war between brewers and LHBS's.
Should I no longer shop at my lhbs?
Has my local supportive brew shop, who has only been encouraging to me, be denied a living wage because of this battle?
Will my lhbs refuse to sell to me because I tried to shop elsewhere, or even if they suspect I was one of the "conspirators"?
Get over it!
I get the impression that wholesalers should be selling wholesale quantities, and if not, the lhbs market is entitled to complain. Wouldn't you be upset if your supplier was selling direct to your customers? Isn't that anti-competitive or price-fixing, or both?
However, if the buyers are buying in lhbs-size quantities (and maybe should be a registered business?), then it sounds like a co-op buy.
If you think your lhbs is ripping you off, consider their overheads, free advice, range of product, and the fact that they put all this into a shop (a venue). If you then decide that they are not doing the right thing by you, by all means shop elsewhere, but don't expect the shop to be there next time you empty your last bag of hop/grain/Whirfloc and condescend to buy there. They may now be out of business.
But, it's not your fault that they priced themselves out of the market, is it?
Cynical? Yes! ...but is it practical. I don't know if we have any CPA's or brewers who study Economics here, but if there is, please speak up. What's your opinion?
Opinions - Free.
Facts - $2
Statistics - $125 per hour.
U can keep the flame suit. I'll have a beer :beerbang:
Seth (my 3 cents worth, but I'll only ask for 2, coz it's a bulk buy)
[No afilliation, but plenty of empathy]
I must have been snoozing, coz when I woke up there was a war between brewers and LHBS's.
Should I no longer shop at my lhbs?
Has my local supportive brew shop, who has only been encouraging to me, be denied a living wage because of this battle?
Will my lhbs refuse to sell to me because I tried to shop elsewhere, or even if they suspect I was one of the "conspirators"?
Get over it!
I get the impression that wholesalers should be selling wholesale quantities, and if not, the lhbs market is entitled to complain. Wouldn't you be upset if your supplier was selling direct to your customers? Isn't that anti-competitive or price-fixing, or both?
However, if the buyers are buying in lhbs-size quantities (and maybe should be a registered business?), then it sounds like a co-op buy.
If you think your lhbs is ripping you off, consider their overheads, free advice, range of product, and the fact that they put all this into a shop (a venue). If you then decide that they are not doing the right thing by you, by all means shop elsewhere, but don't expect the shop to be there next time you empty your last bag of hop/grain/Whirfloc and condescend to buy there. They may now be out of business.
But, it's not your fault that they priced themselves out of the market, is it?
Cynical? Yes! ...but is it practical. I don't know if we have any CPA's or brewers who study Economics here, but if there is, please speak up. What's your opinion?
Opinions - Free.
Facts - $2
Statistics - $125 per hour.
U can keep the flame suit. I'll have a beer :beerbang:
Seth (my 3 cents worth, but I'll only ask for 2, coz it's a bulk buy)
[No afilliation, but plenty of empathy]
stephen
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 2/11/05
- Messages
- 366
- Reaction score
- 1
Gents and Ladies, Distinguished Guests,
This thread has provded me with some interesting reading about, "How the LHBS are ripping us off with hop and grain prices." I, myself, don't really give a rats arse what it costs me to make a beer or how I can make it cheaper. I am making great beer! And cheaper and better that the breweries can!
How many of you have gone to a coffee shop and had a cup of coffee? Crikey! Last time I did that I could have gone to Woolie's and purchased a jar of coffee, a kilo of sugar and a liter of milk for the cost of one cup. How many of you have actually gone to a restaurant or pub and enjoyed a meal that you could have made yourself at home for nowhere near the cost? After this have you thought we can cut out the butcher and buy direct from the abattoir? Any body out there bake there own bread, cakes biscuits etc? Do you want to have desires to "cut out the local flour supplier" and buy in bulk from the Australian Wheat Board?
The previous paragraph is my attempt to typify what I think this thread is trying to do. The long term effect I can see happening, is that once there is a bulk purchase framework in place we can teach those, "Rip-off local homebrew shops a lesson." Then there will be no local home brew shops about to introduce new H.B.er's to the hobby
I know myself that If I didn't have a LHBS or two to go to then I would still be a K & K brewer donating my dollars to the Megamarkets.
This is purely my own opinion with no affiliation to any homebrew shops.
Steve
This thread has provded me with some interesting reading about, "How the LHBS are ripping us off with hop and grain prices." I, myself, don't really give a rats arse what it costs me to make a beer or how I can make it cheaper. I am making great beer! And cheaper and better that the breweries can!
How many of you have gone to a coffee shop and had a cup of coffee? Crikey! Last time I did that I could have gone to Woolie's and purchased a jar of coffee, a kilo of sugar and a liter of milk for the cost of one cup. How many of you have actually gone to a restaurant or pub and enjoyed a meal that you could have made yourself at home for nowhere near the cost? After this have you thought we can cut out the butcher and buy direct from the abattoir? Any body out there bake there own bread, cakes biscuits etc? Do you want to have desires to "cut out the local flour supplier" and buy in bulk from the Australian Wheat Board?
The previous paragraph is my attempt to typify what I think this thread is trying to do. The long term effect I can see happening, is that once there is a bulk purchase framework in place we can teach those, "Rip-off local homebrew shops a lesson." Then there will be no local home brew shops about to introduce new H.B.er's to the hobby
I know myself that If I didn't have a LHBS or two to go to then I would still be a K & K brewer donating my dollars to the Megamarkets.
This is purely my own opinion with no affiliation to any homebrew shops.
Steve
Borret
Crazy Eye's Brewery
- Joined
- 15/2/05
- Messages
- 838
- Reaction score
- 0
For those who are trying to run their home brewery as relentlessly as a business....your on the wrong forum. Go get an ABN
For those who aren't.... just get on with it and cut this crap.
Cheap deals are good but not at the degredation of an even more valuable resource.
For those of us that have a great LHBS...
Just smile and wave boys......
For those who aren't.... just get on with it and cut this crap.
Cheap deals are good but not at the degredation of an even more valuable resource.
For those of us that have a great LHBS...
Just smile and wave boys......
Weizguy
Barley Bomber
Hmmmm, start my own business...
Now, if I could work out the initial investment, based on what I want to earn, so I can live comfortably. I think I'd do a yeast lab. Woohoo, who wants to buy ISO-certified cultures from me. Could take a little while for the ISO rating, though.
Seriously though, if ur gonna run your tight@rse brewery like a business, good on ya, coz we'll still have a top lhbs.
...And we'll keep our lhbs, coz we might wanna buy the business one day, when we branch out from Brewing Yeast Production, into the lhbs market.
That's better for you too, coz when U bankrupt your lhbs and he does something desperate, and is no longer there, our lhbs will be open, and we'll have a major mail order business. Then, with all that buying power, we'll shut down all your puny so-called "bulk buys". (evil cackle - extended play).
...or we'll be there to help, as always, and offer U a fair price. Hmmm, U didn't expect that from a monopolistic megalomaniac, did U?
It would be like a bulk buy every time, without having to order bulk.
That's cool. Your strategy works in favour of both of us (see above plan for world domination).
Too many more ideas. Brain is heating up. My head burns. Ka-Blooey :excl: . Now see wot U did?
Seth (it's gonna take a while to clean up after that)
Cheerz to all...Testify! Thank U brothers!
Smilin' and wavin'
, like Shawn said.
deadly
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 3/5/05
- Messages
- 312
- Reaction score
- 1
I went from my lhbs (5mins away) to my other lhbs (45mins one way) cos there was a better selection and more knowledge.I would have been up for a bulk buy to experiment with ingredients I havent used before,then if there was something I liked,I'd be off to the shop -cos bulk buys cant help me if I need it now.I want the best of both worlds!
I never said all LHBS are bad. I never said I would never again use my LHBS. I just resent the fact that some LHBS has prevented me from exercising my legal right to source the best deal for me. Obviously quite a lot of LHBS owners read this forum, and so they should. But the scare tactics they are posting that they will go broke if a handful of HBers get a bulk buy of Hops up once or twice a year is quite absurd. You will always have people that will walk into your shops and pick up 100gm packs @ $8.50 - $10.00 a pop then and there. That's happened to me before and it will happen again and I can wear that on the chin. I'm not trying to stop anyone from purchasing from their LHBS.
This thread started out as one last comment and apology to Ross & TDA and that's how I would like it to end.
This thread started out as one last comment and apology to Ross & TDA and that's how I would like it to end.
Duff
Worst Website Ever....
- Joined
- 8/6/04
- Messages
- 2,042
- Reaction score
- 6
Some very valid points. I for one though would like to think that I support my LHBS well, for instance, there are 7 19L corny's and all the fittings in my garage which I bought through him when I could have ordered from the US as many others here have; we have seen yeast imported from the US on this site, I buy mine from him; and I'm sure that if we wanted to, there could be collectively a bunch of brewers around Sydney that could organise their own bulk buys on a number of other items.
In return, I get excellent advice, the product delivered to my door, a friendly smile and someone who I can sit down and have a beer with. If I'm looking for a particular ingredient he will search, but in a recent case where I asked for particular US grown hops, the response was no he can't provide them. I don't expect him to stock every particular hop variety that would satisfy me if I decide to do a different style of beer on a whim, as it would cost him to have that sitting in his freezer for the 1 or 2 times a year that I might use them. Thus, ordering through something like Hopeye's or Ross' venture is the only way for me to obtain those particular style of hops, ready for whenever I want to make that different style of beer on a whim.
But being denied by LHBS of purchasing through a bulk buy venture denies me of a choice. In 2006, IMO, that's not on.
Off to start the sparge.
Cheers.
In return, I get excellent advice, the product delivered to my door, a friendly smile and someone who I can sit down and have a beer with. If I'm looking for a particular ingredient he will search, but in a recent case where I asked for particular US grown hops, the response was no he can't provide them. I don't expect him to stock every particular hop variety that would satisfy me if I decide to do a different style of beer on a whim, as it would cost him to have that sitting in his freezer for the 1 or 2 times a year that I might use them. Thus, ordering through something like Hopeye's or Ross' venture is the only way for me to obtain those particular style of hops, ready for whenever I want to make that different style of beer on a whim.
But being denied by LHBS of purchasing through a bulk buy venture denies me of a choice. In 2006, IMO, that's not on.
Off to start the sparge.
Cheers.
THE DRUNK ARAB
Zen Arcade
- Joined
- 7/8/03
- Messages
- 2,127
- Reaction score
- 8
Hopeye, you have nothing to apologise for mate. You went out on a limb to do a service for the AHB community, you were denied the chance to do it by several jealous HBS.
Free trade my arse <_< (That isn't an offer btw )
Bring on Ross's venture :super:
C&B
TDA
Free trade my arse <_< (That isn't an offer btw
)Bring on Ross's venture :super:
C&B
TDA
Hey,
Certainly an option to buy off-shore if the hops suppliers here don't want the business. The prices here don't look to bad. Obviously you can only bring pellets in to Aust. Lots of different varieties to choose from too.
http://www.paddockwood.com/index.php?cPath...&sort=2a&page=1
cheers
Darren
Certainly an option to buy off-shore if the hops suppliers here don't want the business. The prices here don't look to bad. Obviously you can only bring pellets in to Aust. Lots of different varieties to choose from too.
http://www.paddockwood.com/index.php?cPath...&sort=2a&page=1
cheers
Darren
peas_and_corn
I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I cannot mash that
tangent said:"worst bulk buy ever!"
sorry dude, i can't help but get comic book man's voice in my head when i read your posts.
[post="109436"][/post]
I get that a lot as well! It's great to hear someone is just as crazy as me
One last final comment now that MHB has owned up to purchasing the remaining amounts of 145kgs of cheap Hops from Hopco (was in the "Hop Sale" post in Retail threads before it got out of hand and was subsequently cleaned up) and is now trying to resell same Hops to us and others at an inflated cost (which I believe is totally legal, though not really friendly). Agreed, MHB is trying to make a buck. Wasn't it MHB that posted the thread "We are not the enemy" ?? I gotta say that I do not believe that MHB's actions and his words are consistent with each other. MHB's actions also brings into question his involvement in the cause to the start of this thread, namely, who complained to the distributor to prevent a Hop Bulk Buy ??? I don't know who complained, I can only speculate. Any comments MHB ???
I for one will vote with my wallet. If someone can prevent me from buying from one source, it doesn't mean that they can force me to buy from them.
<edit> Context clarification. Changed "we" and "us" (used in the Royal sense) to "me" </end edit>
I for one will vote with my wallet. If someone can prevent me from buying from one source, it doesn't mean that they can force me to buy from them.
<edit> Context clarification. Changed "we" and "us" (used in the Royal sense) to "me" </end edit>
Hopeye
Yes I have something to say, I put it in a thread called We are not the enemy.
You want wholesale price, here it is:-
145 Kg of mixed hops at $23.00 per kg, $3335.00
Freight from Tasmania and to your door $275.00
GST 10% $361.00
Total $3971.00
Put up or shut up.
MHB
Yes I have something to say, I put it in a thread called We are not the enemy.
You want wholesale price, here it is:-
145 Kg of mixed hops at $23.00 per kg, $3335.00
Freight from Tasmania and to your door $275.00
GST 10% $361.00
Total $3971.00
Put up or shut up.
MHB
My lhbs owner almost sent his wife on a 2 hour round trip a few days before christmas because he forgot to get a bag of malt for me. He is a top bloke, and i will always support him. They're only hops, and they aren't that much of a budget buster are they??. really??.
bradmcm
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 26/4/03
- Messages
- 452
- Reaction score
- 70
Darren,
Paddock Wood are fine, as are Hoptech (www.hoptech.com) for US grown varieties. If you buy European hops from them it doesn't work out cheaper than buying from an Australian store.
I do suggets you only buy from them if your LHBS won't stock the hops you want.
Paddock Wood are fine, as are Hoptech (www.hoptech.com) for US grown varieties. If you buy European hops from them it doesn't work out cheaper than buying from an Australian store.
I do suggets you only buy from them if your LHBS won't stock the hops you want.
