The Way Forward

[Hopeye]

As the Hop Bulk Buy thread has been locked, I have one last comment and apology to make.

Totally agree with TDA & Andrew. I charged in like a bull in a china shop. Substantially more tact is required in any further endevours, take note Berto. We are extremely exposed in any ventures that we propose due to the medium that is the internet. The LHBS's read these forums as the rest of us do. Should we possibly consider an email exchange so as not to alert the LHBS's to the fact that we may be exercising our legal right in seeking a better deal ?? Also, I believe in future that there should only be one point of contact with any vendor/supplier. Vendor/supplier details should not be divulged by the person running with a bulk buy.

Freshly taught experience talking.

You were right TDA & Ross. I was a complete fool.

 

[Ross]

You were right TDA & Ross. I was a complete fool.

[post="109258"][/post]​

You wern't a fool mate - just standing up for what you believed in... :super:

cheers Ross

 

[johnno]

While I too am not happy about whats gone on, this is after all a public discussion forum for homebrewers and anyone involved in brewing (or even not involved in brewing) is encouraged to join and participate.

I don't know who the LHBS shop owners are that complained are, but I can see exactly where they are coming from. They are after all trying to make a living.

At the same time I am not happy that I will miss out on some good prices.

Whatever the suppliers reason to not supply to individual homebrewers is, that is their reason.

Hops will always be around here or there. I'm sure there will be good buys in the future for homebrewers.

Then there are people that will start up business to supply need. This is good as it creates more competition and can result in reduced prices.

As long as we do not get the megaswill companies trying to eradicate homebrewing because it is getting more and more popular, then things are ok. (for me anyway)

My 2 cents

johnno

 

[Duff]

Regardless of whether a LHBS are trying to make a living, I seem to live in a society where 'competition' seems to be shoved down my throat. We are constantly told that competition is good for the end consumer, yet in a case where a person who brews maybe 20L of beer a week, we seem to be confined to where he or she HAVE to buy their hops.

That is crap.

Hopeye, you are not a fool. The LHBS who seem to complain will soon realise when homebrewers, and I will be one, buy their hops from somewhere such as Ross' new venture at half price, that 'competition' will be something that they need to address.

Cheers - Brett.

 

[Hopeye]

I will restate what this burning of the fingers has taught me.

We as home brewers need to be smarter in organising these things. When we post it on the net, anyone can see it, LHBS's included. Some of those people who do see it will put pressure on the suppliers. Whoever is running a sensitive Bulk Buy, as hops and malt are, must not divulge the source. We need to agree on a way to notify as many people as possible that a bulk buy is on that the LHBS's cannot monitor freely as they can now. My suggestion is an email address exchange and verification process be instigated unless so of the other tech heads have a better idea.

I must stress that for any future sensitive bulk buy, discretion and substantial tact is required. I do not believe that the LHBS's will win the day, there will be other Bulk Buys.

 

[doglet]

Good in theory HopHead but I'm not sure an verification process would work - it is easy for anyone to get multiple free email addresses etc.

I though we were all into homebrewing and not running covert hop buying operations. Feels almost like WE are doing the wrong thing when it's quite clear that we aren't.

I can understand a wholesaler not wanting to sell small amounts to the little bloke but when someone wants to buy a large quantity, ie. a bulk buy coordinator, then there should not be any problems. It might even be good for them as the average homebrewer would be more likely to experiment with different hops thus moving stocks or the homebrewer would possibly use more hops in recipes to experience different effects such as bittering, aroma additions or dry hopping. I know that's the case for me after buying bulk malt from Darren.

Lets all put it down to experience, a blip on the lupilin radar screen, and get back to our core business HOMEBREWING! :beer:

edit: minor readibility changes.

 

[Hopeye]

Verification process could be by invitation only. I know and can vouch for some HBer's, they know others that I don't and so on. Six levels of separation like. It's gotta be better than advertising what's going on when the LHBS's simply logon, read a few threads and then make a few phone calls. Agreed, it won't be as widespread as blatant advertising of a bulk buy.

I note that you haven't been involved in discussing many topics there doglet. Am I to feel honoured that you have replied to my post (as you have been a member for a year longer than I have) or have I hit a raw nerve ??

Cheers.

 

[doglet]

Bit of a raw nerve actually. I organised a group buy of some "ingredients that shall remain nameless but are one of the four main ingredients used in brewing" for a small group of home brewing friends and I hope to be able to do it again in the future. Maybe that is the future for group buys on some things - local scale not national scale. Ultimately we will all still get the same products at good prices and postage may also be a bit cheaper as the double handling won't be an issue.

I'm normally a reader and not a writer. I have learnt so much on this forum, especially in the last year when it's read nearly everyday, and I am just about to embark on my next phase of homebrewing after building a brewstand for AG brewing. Hope to get some pictures and description up in the next week or so. Hopefully as I gain more experience I can participate more in discussions with my experiences.

Over and out.....

 

[Hopeye]

I don't see anything illegal or immoral, or even anti-competitive, about having a Trusted Network of Home Brewers that can also communicate in mediums outside of this forum. But, you would need to be invited into the group as opposed to just signing up. Kind of like a club where you have to be nominated and then seconded.

Just to make sure that no riff-raff gets in (joke !!!)

 

[big d]

is anyone with knowledge of said complaining lhbs going to OUT them.if they lhbs are reading this will you OUT yourself and explain your stance on the issue of bulk hop buying.It will certainly help the situation us keen homebrewers are facing.
i will be waiting in anticipation for a hbs reply.

cheers
dave

 

[tangent]

i've always said that i love this site but i can't tell the sheep from the wolves

some kind ppl have suggested that i check out each persons details, but most ppl can't be arsed filling out what continent they're on, let alone if they own a HBS, and are pushing things simply because they stock them and therefore make a quid out of you.

 

[johnno]

Maybe this thread should have been titled.

"the way backwards..to a monopoloy"

 

[Linz]

Hopeye,

Out the Shop who complained to the hop supplier. baulk their store/s and see what kicks from there.......consumer buying power !

 

[Hopeye]

Have I overstepped my mark again ??? Tell me if I have.

I know some people out there are nervous by what I'm saying, but, do we need to advertise everything we do ??? I think if we looked through previous bulk buys we could get a pretty good idea of who we could trust as a HBer. Get a core group of people into a distribution list and expand from there. It shouldn't be that hard should it ??

Agreed, we shouldn't have to resort to this, this is a free country with rules against anti-competitive behaviour. Maybe I'll take it up with Uncle Johnny when he visits my office next week (ha !!).

Let me know if I'm talking $#!t.

 

[Hopeye]

Linz,

I was not told which LHBS complained, only that there was several of them. I can't out what I don't know.

Cheers

 

[doglet]

Be very careful about naming names. I am a subscriber to the Overclockers Australia forum and a couple years ago they were pulled offline line for a few months whilst some legal wrangling went on over a post in one of the old forums called Vendor Verdicts. Back then I was a real computer geek and it was like going cold turkey without that forum. I don't want to get the DT's if this forum suffered a similar fate

 

[Hopeye]

Like I said. I can't out what I don't know. Which I guess is for the best.

 

[Vlad the Pale Aler]

Rhizome bulk buy! h34r:

 

[Linz]

Be very careful about naming names. I am a subscriber to the Overclockers Australia forum and a couple years ago they were pulled offline line for a few months whilst some legal wrangling went on over a post in one of the old forums called Vendor Verdicts. Back then I was a real computer geek and it was like going cold turkey without that forum. I don't want to get the DT's if this forum suffered a similar fate

[post="109369"][/post]​

Oh Sh1t.....dont want that ...I'll freak out and have back to back w/ends of mash demo days just to talk with other HBers

Bring on the rhizome buys!!!!!

My Bro has 14 ha near mudgee(Olives)...any good for hop growing???

 

[PhilS]

I have been following these hop threads with interest and must say that I am dissapointed with the lhbs.

I am soon to start my first real AG and was (still :blink: ) looking at different hops for this brewing obsession. This is a dirty & greedy tactic that only enforces my opinion of freedom to buy cheaper ingredients from other sources.

Admittedly (sp :unsure: ) I don't know the full details.

I don't mind if you check up on my details as I don't have a hbs under my belt