The Great Chinese Hop Buy 2009

[KGB]

That sucks Killer.

Going back a few pages (been lazy, catching up) - I'd definitely be happy with 950g repacks, thats still a $hitload of hops for me and being sure that you could fit three bags in a 3kg post pack is a great idea.

 

[Tim]

Can anyone tell me (or point me in the right direction) the similaritys between these chinese hops and other common hops.

Eg: Nugget is very similar to XXXX,

I know that the Marco Polo is suppose to be similar to Columbus, is this what you have found?

Is the saaz similar to Czech saaz, or more like B or D?

Is the cascade anything like the american cascade or is it more like something else?

Whats cluster similar to?

Gregor

The 'Saaz' is actually a cultivar called SA-1. It's a cross between Czech Saaz and Tettnang bred especially for Sopporo in 1985. Do a google search on SA-1 hops. The original thread stated that the code for the hops is SA-1, so technically it's not Saaz. Just thought I would give everyone the heads up.

 

[real_beer]

Adding to what others have said.
Ever notice how excited the guys who grow their own hops get? My Chinook, Tettnang, P.O.R. etc. is growing great; has withered away; is dead!!!

I think that they realise the name they give their hops is just derived from a species maybe 12,000 km away and will end up producing a different end result from the country they originated from. Instead of calling it a hop rhizome of the Chinook family planted & lovingly cared for and grown on the gentle sloping northern exposure of Fred's backyard in Fitzroy, Victoria, they just say my Chinook.

How simple is that, do they care there not the same as what you buy? They probably do to the extent they'll keep trying to grow them closer to the character of the original as each season goes buy with a little bit more of this, or a little less that fertiliser; water, next time. Do they make good beer with their hops? I bet their beers are delicious :icon_drool2: . Did they have to design new recipes to suit the hops? Of course!

I myself at this point don't want to spend all the time and effort lovingly growing & caring for a hop garden to see a few days of unpredictable extreme weather wipe them out, it would really piss me off. But this hop buy offers to provide a similar opportunity for experimentation as the home growers get (yes, not whole hopping, but plenty of other things to keep me occupied for the next 12 months).

I do this hobby for fun and I like the opportunity this hop buy has presented for more of it.

Thanks again Graham

 

[townsville]

Thats great news about the saaz, as I myself prefer Tettnanger, so looking forward to try these hops. Looks like BribieG assessment was right, tha tthe saaz was a classic SE Asia type of Saaz found in their beers.

Well if you want even more feedback

Some-one in Sydney (who will remain nameless) is getting 400kg of hops from China. They got a sample and were impressed.

I think the floodgates may have opened just a touch.

Craftbrewer

 

[Bribie G]

I still have not received my hops... Pissed off!... at this point I don't think they are going to turn up.

All the way from china, then lost between brisbane & sydney. :angry:

Is there a checklist to confirm they were infact packed & sent? Possible mine was missed on packing day or lost between packing & posting?

Killer, there was only you and DoogieChap who hadn't received their hops but his arrived yesterday. I've been waiting for last possible minute, I'll take my card of yellow stickers into the post office tomorrow. Yours was order no. 5. All orders were packed in order and were put in my car, and delivered next day to Bribie PO, and definitely dispatched. The PO will have to work their way through every sticker on the card but they are the ones who have lost it so bugger them.

Next buy we'll tighten up the yellow 'sender' sticker procedure so this is partly our fault. At the end of the day if we still can't track them down I'll be highly recommending chucking you hops out of the next buy.

Cheers

 

[winkle]

Killer, there was only you and DoogieChap who hadn't received their hops but his arrived yesterday. I've been waiting for last possible minute, I'll take my card of yellow stickers into the post office tomorrow. Yours was order no. 5. All orders were packed in order and were put in my car, and delivered next day to Bribie PO, and definitely dispatched. The PO will have to work their way through every sticker on the card but they are the ones who have lost it so bugger them.

Next buy we'll tighten up the yellow 'sender' sticker procedure so this is partly our fault. At the end of the day if we still can't track them down I'll be highly recommending chucking you hops out of the next buy.

Cheers

Thank goodness its you organising this Bribie, I can imagine the bun fight if I'd been running it.

I'll be kegging up the Marco Polo test beer in a day or two and force carbing for a weekend taster, + be brewing the big nugget & cascade batch on Saturdee.

 

[Ross]

Thats great news about the saaz, as I myself prefer Tettnanger, so looking forward to try these hops. Looks like BribieG assessment was right, tha tthe saaz was a classic SE Asia type of Saaz found in their beers.

Well if you want even more feedback

Some-one in Sydney (who will remain nameless) is getting 400kg of hops from China. They got a sample and were impressed.

I think the floodgates may have opened just a touch.

Craftbrewer

No need for names, but homebrew store or micro?

Cheers Ross

 

[townsville]

No need for names, but homebrew store or micro?

Let me think about that Ross.

WHY

well they also want to increase the importation to many tons a year into Australia. Willing to match quality to feedback from individual brewers. I have some calls to make in regards to this volume.

Craftbrewer

 

[.DJ.]

I cant image a micro would by that many hops upfront with no guarantee of quality

Silly if they do IMO.

 

[arogers]

hey graham, the first buy plus the second one (the way its shaping up) will come close to the tonne.

amazing really. that cant not put a dent in aussie retail sales of hops, unless we all start drinking to earn a crust which i dont think will happen.

 

[benno1973]

I still have not received my hops... Pissed off!... at this point I don't think they are going to turn up.

The PO will have to work their way through every sticker on the card but they are the ones who have lost it so bugger them.

Killer, if this can't be sorted out by the PO, I'm happy to send a couple of baggies your way. I have Cascade and Saaz, and I probably don't need 3kg of hops before the next bulk buy! BribieG - let us know how it goes and if it doesn't get resolved, Killer PM me your address and I'll send some of each your way.

 

[Bribie G]

Carlsberg are actually buying and developing hop operations in China. I reckon if the 400k buyer is a micro, they are only jumping on the bandwagon where Euro Brewers are already riding.

 

[Bribie G]

Just a thought as well, seeing as Killer's order is only about one percent of the total buy, and clearly Aus Post do a good job but nothing is perfect, maybe on the next buy then members won't object to paying a two percent surcharge on the hops - eg extra 30 cents a repack - as an insurance policy for the bag or two that could go astray - and reimburse the buyers if the bags are eventually totally lost. If everything turns up ok, donate it to AHB as this forum provides the infrastructure that allows these buys to happen.

 

[townsville]

I cant image a micro would by that many hops upfront with no guarantee of quality

Silly if they do IMO.

See, this is why our not running a micro. As much grain is grain arround the world, malt is malt, hops are hops if they are certified, and thus the quality IS GUARANTEED, True the taste may vary slightly location to location, BUT thats the brewers art to formulate reciepes not only year by year if he gets his hops from one source, but also when buying from a new source.

Nothing surprising about it.

Craftbrewer

 

[MarkBastard]

Just a thought as well, seeing as Killer's order is only about one percent of the total buy, and clearly Aus Post do a good job but nothing is perfect, maybe on the next buy then members won't object to paying a two percent surcharge on the hops - eg extra 30 cents a repack - as an insurance policy for the bag or two that could go astray - and reimburse the buyers if the bags are eventually totally lost. If everything turns up ok, donate it to AHB as this forum provides the infrastructure that allows these buys to happen.

I have no issues with this. In fact I'd be all for having a bank account set up for this with contingency money put away for a rainy day, as well as donating to AHB, as AHB is an imperative part of this process and I think we can often take it for granted.

 

[bit]

Interesting paper about Chinese hops:

http://www.scientificsocieties.org/jib/pap...05-0718-291.pdf

Chinese Saaz (SA-1) comes from Female Saaz and Male Tettnang (page 230 of the above pdf).

Page 232 quote:"SA-1 gives beer an aroma to similar to those brewed by Fuggle related varieties".

Looks like our Saaz (SA-1) has been properly researched and should make great beer

 

[townsville]

Interesting paper about Chinese hops:

Chinese Saaz (SA-1) comes from Female Saaz and Male Tettnang (page 230 of the above pdf).

Page 232 quote:"SA-1 gives beer an aroma to similar to those brewed by Fuggle related varieties".

Looks like our Saaz (SA-1) has been properly researched and should make great beer

Its an interesting read, with reference too to Marco polo, Chinese cluster as well. BUT

How the hell can a saaz x tenaager gives fuggle type tastes. Beats me,

BribieG, your all Saaz beer, does it smell and taste, saaz, Tett, a bit of both, SE ASIAN, or fuggly

Thats the trouble with taste tests, everyone has their opinion on taste

Craftbrewer

 

[.DJ.]

See, this is why our not running a micro. As much grain is grain arround the world, malt is malt, hops are hops if they are certified, and thus the quality IS GUARANTEED, True the taste may vary slightly location to location, BUT thats the brewers art to formulate reciepes not only year by year if he gets his hops from one source, but also when buying from a new source.

Nothing surprising about it.

Craftbrewer

So graham, why didn't you personally GUARANTEE the quality of these hops?

you seem to change your tune to suit your own agendas....

 

[Adamt]

I think I, or someone else mentioned this some pages back and I'm sure there was a response of "it's coming"... but is there hop component data yet? Alpha acid content, beta acid content, oil content, cohumulone levels...

 

[townsville]

So graham, why didn't you personally GUARANTEE the quality of these hops?

you seem to change your tune to suit your own agendas....

No agenda change here mate. This exercise, and the next buys are done "NOT FOR PROFIT". These exercises are for the benfit of the brewing community. A lot of people put in a lot of their own time and effort for no reward. Certainly no monitary reward. That was made quite clear at the start. As such, no guarantee - nothing ground-breaking about that. It was solely buyer beware.

NOW

If one was to go full-on into hop importation, With big volumes, and dollars changing hands, THEN the hop company will give that money back guarantee on quality, or replace the goods. That again is quite normal, in fact one couldn't sell hops any other way.

So, for the benefit of ALL craftbrewers, this exercise was no guarantee, to keep costs down.

I think all agee the risk was worth it.

Craftbrewer