The Great Chinese Hop Buy 2009

[Bribie G]

Its an interesting read, with reference too to Marco polo, Chinese cluster as well. BUT

How the hell can a saaz x tenaager gives fuggle type tastes. Beats me,

BribieG, your all Saaz beer, does it smell and taste, saaz, Tett, a bit of both, SE ASIAN, or fuggly

Thats the trouble with taste tests, everyone has their opinion on taste

Craftbrewer

The wort tasted very SE Asian, not Czech. But then NZ "Saaz" doesn't taste like anything else either. At the moment it smells like sulphur because it's still in primary with a lager yeast

 

[townsville]

The wort tasted very SE Asian, not Czech. But then NZ "Saaz" doesn't taste like anything else either. At the moment it smells like sulphur because it's still in primary with a lager yeast

OK, so we can ignor the comment that Chinese Saaz "tastes like fuggles" (yes I know its only one comment). I thought the paper was a bit wrong there with its asumptions.

I do like the analogy of the taste of the Chinese Saaz - SE-ASIAN

Craftbrewer

 

[Gout]

sweet and sour pork beer mmmmmm that makes me hungry and thirsty

 

[.DJ.]

No agenda change here mate. This exercise, and the next buys are done "NOT FOR PROFIT". These exercises are for the benfit of the brewing community. A lot of people put in a lot of their own time and effort for no reward. Certainly no monitary reward. That was made quite clear at the start. As such, no guarantee - nothing ground-breaking about that. It was solely buyer beware.

NOW

If one was to go full-on into hop importation, With big volumes, and dollars changing hands, THEN the hop company will give that money back guarantee on quality, or replace the goods. That again is quite normal, in fact one couldn't sell hops any other way.

So, for the benefit of ALL craftbrewers, this exercise was no guarantee, to keep costs down.

I think all agee the risk was worth it.

Craftbrewer

you still didnt answer the question..
First you say

"Equally we cant guarantee the quality of the hops if they do arrive. China is the third largest producers of hops in the world, BUT that doesn't mean the quality is great."

Then you go spruking to me the that... (AND I QUOTE)

"and thus the quality IS GUARANTEED"

 

[townsville]

you still didnt answer the question..
First you say

"Equally we cant guarantee the quality of the hops if they do arrive. China is the third largest producers of hops in the world, BUT that doesn't mean the quality is great."

Then you go spruking to me the that... (AND I QUOTE)

"and thus the quality IS GUARANTEED"

Picky picky mate. You remind me of those religious zellots who take paragraphs out of the bible all over the place, then quote them out of context to justify all manor of things. I hate to say it, that exactly what you are doing.

The first statement was in context when we were the first to import hops, we didn't know if the supplier actually existed, nor did we know if the hops would even be sent if they did. So the context of that statement stands on the day it was made.

We now know they do exist, that they deliver, they take GREAT PRIDE in their product, They want to satisfy all the brewers in Australia, and yes, They will guarantee quality.

Now thats a guarantee to me at this stage, as I will say again so this sets in "we did this for NO PROFIT"

If I was to run it for profit, or supply say a Micro-brewery, then that guarantee would apply to them as well.

Hope that clears things up

Craftbrewer
Graham Sanders
Skype "Craftbrewer"
http://radio.craftbrewer.org

 

[jonocarroll]

maybe on the next buy then members won't object to paying a two percent surcharge on the hops - eg extra 30 cents a repack - as an insurance policy for the bag or two that could go astray

And maybe an extra couple percent for cold storage facilities? A couple extra for a decent vacuum sealer? Along with the original couple extra towards feeding and watering the packers? All on top of the 30% increase in cost to get them from China to the door.

Do you start to see where a shop's overheads come from??? This is only a tiny amount of insurance you are considering - imagine if you actually had to cover real premiums. Also remember, whilst Graham is reminding everyone that this is not for profit... businesses tend to run differently. As in, profit = good.

I don't want to start the war over how cheap these are, but if you're going to start sounding like a business I would like you to recognise the arguments previously made.

Anyhoo - has anyone drank some hop tea yet (boiled for 5 mins or so, then cooled and tasted)? Could be an okay way to (very roughly) test the (iso-)cohumulone level and proper aroma qualities without any of Mr Sanders' dreaded dust getting in the way. h34r:

 

[KillerRx4]

Killer, there was only you and DoogieChap who hadn't received their hops but his arrived yesterday. I've been waiting for last possible minute, I'll take my card of yellow stickers into the post office tomorrow. Yours was order no. 5. All orders were packed in order and were put in my car, and delivered next day to Bribie PO, and definitely dispatched. The PO will have to work their way through every sticker on the card but they are the ones who have lost it so bugger them.

Next buy we'll tighten up the yellow 'sender' sticker procedure so this is partly our fault. At the end of the day if we still can't track them down I'll be highly recommending chucking you hops out of the next buy.

Cheers

Thanks Bribie. Hopefully they find them but if not I'd be happy if the reimburse my $ to spend on next shipment.

Thanks for the offer also Kaiser Soze.

 

[townsville]

Thanks Bribie. Hopefully they find them but if not I'd be happy if the reimburse my $ to spend on next shipment.

Thanks for the offer also Kaiser Soze.

Haven't done a bulk buy yet mate, where some poor turkey seems to draw the short straw. Always one who seems to get lost in the post. I bet it will turn up this week sometime. Its probably be siphoned off for a drug/bomb test in one of the exchanges by some overvigerious postal worker thinking he has discovered a major drug lord.

I imported once a satellite card for the computer. Took 3 months. First Customs took it aside, ripped the box appart thinking it was a bomb of some kind, Then because the package was tampered with, Aus POst took it aside for an inspection again by the federal police. Hence the three month delay.

And dont you love how they sticky tape it up with a nice note telling you they ruined the box, and appologising for the delay

Craftbrewer

 

[Mattese]

Thanks Bribie. Hopefully they find them but if not I'd be happy if the reimburse my $ to spend on next shipment.

Thanks for the offer also Kaiser Soze.

Likewise Killer, If they are a no show I'm more than happy to send a baggy or two your way. Like GS says, they'll probably turn up, but if not PM your address and I'll send you some hoppy lovin'.

I love this place! What brewing is all about. Being tightarse and helping your mates get drunk...

 

[townsville]

Oh, and here is a bombshell, or at least a little schrapnel.

MARCO POLO

I am doubting is Columbus

The scientific paper quoted earlier, well those things are peer reviewed before publication. For those who dont know, that means they are taken appart by similar knownledgables to ensure accuracy. They scrutise every aspects.

In the paper they quote 11 varieties they tested from all arround the world, and in all cases they quoted where from and the original parents.

BUT the MP parents are quote "unknown". Equally they quote the origins as the USA, which is most unusal, considering its susposed to be a China hop. This would have NOT been missed by the peer reviewers. Further I quoted some USA friends the smells and tastes, and they stated "sounds like simcoe hop to me". Now for those who dont know, simcoe hop can not be grown commercially by anyone. Its a registered variety that can only be grown under licence, and they dont give too many out.

Now we all know how good the Chinese are at copying things and making them their own.

Based on all this I have come up with three possibilities

1. MP is a wild variety from China, probably found growing in a USA based hop field.
2. MP is as stated earlier - columbus
3. MP is a registered variety based on something like simcoe, BUT as its "aquired", they are not saying so, for copywrite reasons.

Based on the scientific paper, I tend to favour option 3. as a distinct possibility.

It certainly can't be ruled out

Craftbrewer
Graham L Sanders
skype "Craftbrewer"
http://radio.craftbrewer.org

 

[MarkBastard]

Why are you favouring option 3 because of the scientific paper? It seems the only association you have for it being Simcoe is you described it to some yanks and they said it sounds like simcoe. Come on, that's a pretty weak one.

 

[townsville]

Why are you favouring option 3 because of the scientific paper? It seems the only association you have for it being Simcoe is you described it to some yanks and they said it sounds like simcoe. Come on, that's a pretty weak one.

Lot you know about scientific papers.

The papers show

1. origins unknown, or not stated - why?????????????/
2. its peer reviewed
3. why wasn't the origins stated
4. The similarity to simcoe raises the question and answers the other three questions.

Shout
Craftbrewer

 

[pdilley]

Not to dig up shit from the past or anything but I proposed to a work mate the whole idea of Chinamen all shitting on the hop fields after a big bowl of asian noodle soup with toasted onions and he said hold on a sec and gave me this!

http://rapidshare.com/files/321081723/Huma...ndbook.pdf.html

Thats right a complete handbook of human manure, NO SHIT!

He said he'd have all the nay sayers going outside and shitting on their hop plants in the garden in no time to try and catch up to what the Chinese have caught onto. He's really into this crap!

So in honour of Graham, the first 10 downloaders get their own Humanure Handbook. After then someone else has to upload it to share or find another site than rapid share.

Graham, you can spread this shit to all your radio listeners for all I care

Another bright idea from timmy the turd:


Cheers,
Brewer Pete

 

[townsville]

Graham, you can spread this shit to all your radio listeners for all I care

Cheers,
Brewer Pete

You just know I am going to do this dont you. It a classic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Graham L Sanders
Craftbrewer
Skype "Craftbrewer"
http://radio.craftbrewer.org

 

[Bribie G]

When I'm brewing and I've had a couple and it's dark and I need to take a leak - rather than go into the house I pee on my pile of spent grain in the compost-making area of the veg garden. However I haven't dropped the tweeds there, yet

 

[MarkBastard]

Lot you know about scientific papers.

The papers show

1. origins unknown, or not stated - why?????????????/
2. its peer reviewed
3. why wasn't the origins stated
4. The similarity to simcoe raises the question and answers the other three questions.

Shout
Craftbrewer

1 - collect underpants
2 - ?
3 - profit

 

[townsville]

1 - collect underpants
2 - ?
3 - profit

Thats so scientifically insightful, I am lost for words.

Really

Craftbrewer

 

[TidalPete]

My theory!

Christopher Columbus credited with discovering the New World.
Marco Polo credited with opening up Chinese trade to the West.

Who says the Chinese don't have a sense of humour?

TP

 

[townsville]

My theory!

Christopher Columbus credited with discovering the New World.
Marco Polo credited with opening up Chinese trade to the West.

Who says the Chinese don't have a sense of humour?

TP

i am with you. I do love the Chinese for one thing, the way they stick it to the man. They dont muck arround the bush, they like aussies, say it openly but suttlely.

I would not put it past them to name hops Marco Polo for a good but suttle reason.

One thing I have leant about the Chinese, they do things for a reason.

Craftbrewer

 

[goomboogo]

who were these pro's and who were the ultra sensitive brewers? to me your post sounds like an author trying to sell his book by saying 'a number of book critics were very impressed with the book' and 'some well known journalists thoroughly enjoyed it'. Without knowing who these people are, it doesn't hold as much merit...

I'm as curious as Phillip. Who were the professionals and what style of beer did they brew with their Chinese hops?