The Great Chinese Hop Buy 2009

[arogers]

I've always looked on this as a cheap experiment that might uncover some excellent surprises, if they'd all turned out ratshit I was prepared for that from day one.

+1 brother, but fortune favours the brave!

 

[T.D.]

No they are labelled, unless someone wants to try them blind - no real point though, as the difference is not subtle.

I can understand an uneducated nose smelling them on their own, finding them possibly ok, but smelt against any fresh hop or by an educated nose, no way.
As I've said... they may well make fine beers & turn out to be excellent value for money & for this the trial beers will be the important test, but aroma wise in the raw state they leave a lot to be desired.

Cheers Ross

:lol: :lol: Another classic Ross comment... Love the way you assume that because somebody doesn't agree with your assessment that their senses are somehow not up to scratch. Also interesting that the "onion" character referred to has in fact been established to be sulphur... hmm not sure you are really in a position to be questioning other people's palates...

One thing I do agree with, lets just wait and see how the beers turn out...

 

[Effect]

Love the way you assume that because somebody doesn't agree with your assessment that their senses are somehow not up to scratch

I didn't get that from his post...

 

[Ross]

. Also interesting that the "onion" character referred to has in fact been established to be sulphur... hmm not sure you are really in a position to be questioning other people's palates...

Established as sulphur by who?!?! There is not a hint of sulphur anywhere near the hops in my possession, & I believe Graham confirmed there was not sulphur used in the drying process. I have 4 other employees that handle hop packing literally every day of the week & I put great value in their experience & judgement (especially Anthony (mothballs online)). The findings I've put forward are the agreed concencus from us all - Also, pretty well 100% of the many customers who have been in and assessed them personally have agreed as well.

What should I report...just what people want to hear, or our honest findings?

Cheers Ross

 

[Bribie G]

Thanks Ross.

Hopefully some reports will come through shortly on the Cluster & Nugget

I'm brewing with the Cluster in about half an hour. The Saaz is clean, pleasant and I've done an all Saaz that is fermenting ATM. I have only done an all Saaz once before, and it was Saaz 06 season plugs that I reported on in my thread "The Gremlins have stolen my Saaz". So far my beer is ahead of the Euro Saaz version, let's see how it turns out but no complaints yet.

 

[Greg Lawrence]

I'm brewing with the Cluster in about half an hour. The Saaz is clean, pleasant and I've done an all Saaz that is fermenting ATM. I have only done an all Saaz once before, and it was Saaz 06 season plugs that I reported on in my thread "The Gremlins have stolen my Saaz". So far my beer is ahead of the Euro Saaz version, let's see how it turns out but no complaints yet.

What type of beer are you using the Cluster in?

 

[AndrewQLD]

I brewed a golden ale on Sunday, hopped with 18g marco polo and 2 x 15g of Amarillo all in separate hop socks, the 2 amarillo socks still had plenty of hops in them at the end of the boil but the Marco polo one was completely empty. I think these are processed a lot finer than I have seen with other hop pellets.

I'm not saying this would detract from the hop quality but it surprised me that they dissolved out of the hop sock.

Andrew

 

[Batz]

Have to say I'm amazed - I've got both varieties on trial in the shop & not even the most uneducated nose has had any trouble picking up on the muskiness in the chinese varieties - maybe we have fresher hops here in the East B)

Cheers Ross

Seems we have a lot of 'uneducated' on this site Ross, a retailer should be more careful with his name calling.

I'm yet to open any of my hops, perhaps I will almost obtain educated status, but in Kin Kin perhaps not :lol:

Batz

 

[pdilley]

I got some hints of onion in the Marco Polo I got and this was ambient temperatures out of the Post satchell. I did not get 2 kilos packed and cluster and nugget went in the freezer along with 33 90g packs and when removing them from their chill ovenight the hop aroma was different. Not drastically different but more like hops out of the LHBS fridge than when they were warm.

So I can relate to the two opinions on an onion hint although I read here about it and was looking for it and the fact that when placed under refridgeration the aroma changes to something closer to what I expect of hops than hot out of the Post stachel.

Time will tell what a wisp of onion will be after I reopen a MP 90 after a cold spell and have a good whif.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete

 

[townsville]

not even the most uneducated nose has had any trouble picking up on the muskiness in the chinese varieties

here is a thought that occurred to me last night. Many an uneducated nose will constantly mix smells and flavours and not even realise it.

As a kid on a grain farm, the silo's are a very dusty environment, BUT fun to play in. Anyway, you would be amazed how many people would say the grain has to be mouldy and even musky. This can be upsetting, since you have just harvested the grain, and of course want to sell it as fresh harvested.

It took us a while to work out they were ACTUALLY SMELLING THE DUST. This might seem strange, but dust certainly can have unique smells, nothing like you would expect. The posts here on how this hop is very finely crushed, it disolves extremely fast (great for dry hopping mind you), got me thinking that

I wonder if those at Ross's work are smelling the dust and interpreting the smell as musky. Musky smells to me are definitely those pink lolly sticks and these hops DONT smell like that. However stretch my imagination with some well broken up hops, releasing the dust, AND I can accept at a stretch some will think its musky.

Most interesting as others state, cool them diown, allow the dust to settle, and that dusty/musky smell definitely disappears, and certainly doesn't appear in hop teas. Makes me think with certainity that its dust being smelt

Shout
Craftbrewer
Graham L Sanders
skype "Craftbrewer"
http://radio.craftbrewer.org

 

[Adamt]

The flavours from hop tea isn't always an accurate representation of what will end up in beer, either.

All this banter and no-one has actually tried a FINISHED beer with these hops? Come on people, sure it's OK to discuss preconceptions on how you expect it to turn out based on the dry hop aroma, tea, etc., but surely, a few pages of shit-fighting is going too far. Can't we all just sit tight for a week or so until the first beers come in?

After all this crap being spewed in this thread, I'll be waiting a while before I decide whether these hops are worth it or not because quite frankly, Graham, your arrogance makes you VERY untrustworthy and since this buy (which I have nothing against) you now have a nice swag of bum-kissing disciples that will likely back up your enthusiasm for these hops.

EDIT: this shitty grammar is brought to you by iPhone.

 

[townsville]

Graham, you're arrogance makes you VERY untrustworthy

My arrogance is more famious than my repretation, BUT modesty forbids me to brag. Either you learn to live with it, or cringe with every word I say.

LEAST THE WORLD KNOWS EXACTLY WHAT I AM LIKE !!!!!!!!!!!!! and I like it. I feel good about myself.

Craftbrewer

 

[Steve]

a few pages of shit-fighting is going too far.

After all this crap being spewed in this thread, I'll be waiting a while before I decide whether these hops are worth it or not because quite frankly, Graham, you're arrogance makes you VERY untrustworthy and since this buy (which I have nothing against) you now have a nice swag of bum-kissing disciples that will likely back up your enthusiasm for these hops.

I wouldnt have called it shit-fighting at all........and you may probably have just fuelled it even more with your second paragraph....Jeez! Who are the bum kissers? The people that have said thanks for organising? You've lost me :huh:

 

[townsville]

Agree Steve

While I am very excited for the brewing community, the fact they can really go to town with good quality cheap hops, and brew "The beers they want to drink" (hey I think everyone will benefit), it does hurt to discuss initial perceptions.

I am sure Ross's crew is smelling something that everyone else is not. They are not liers, they smell something.

Now why no-one else smells it is the mystery. I just put up a likely explaination that I think is both logical and feasible, from a lot of experience with smells and tasting.

Dust does smell "weirde" to different people, and it doesn't take much at all for some super-sensitives as I call them, to register all sorts of smells.

Craftbrewer

 

[T.D.]

Graham, your arrogance makes you VERY untrustworthy and since this buy (which I have nothing against) you now have a nice swag of bum-kissing disciples that will likely back up your enthusiasm for these hops.

Makes a refreshing change from the same thing happening with the other craftbrewer... :lol:

 

[bradsbrew]

I am sure Ross's crew is smelling something that everyone else is not. They are not liers, they smell something.

Now why no-one else smells it is the mystery. I just put up a likely explaination that I think is both logical and feasible, from a lot of experience with smells and tasting.



Craftbrewer

I thought what Ross was saying was that when the two hops are side by side, the chinese hops smelt musty compared to the shop ones. And as DrK said they probably should smell different too.
I have a pack of cluster at home from Ross and abou 850g of china Cluster I may just try the comparison thing for myself.

Cheers

 

[daemon]

All this banter and no-one has actually tried a FINISHED beer with these hops? Come on people, sure it's OK to discuss preconceptions on how you expect it to turn out based on the dry hop aroma, tea, etc., but surely, a few pages of shit-fighting is going too far. Can't we all just sit tight for a week or so until the first beers come in?

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...st&p=568385

Already posted feedback, just in the thread where the recipe I used is listed also. For those too lazy to click:

My CCAPA is down to 1010 so I took a sample to force carbonate with a carbonation cap (great device for sampling beers early!). It certainly needed the dry hopping to add some aroma back into it, hydrometer samples were fairly plain up until then. The resulting beer is a nice summer ale but certainly not a direct replacement for US Cascade. I'm not an expert in taste but it reminds me of a slightly subdued Riwaka (NZ) hop style. There's some subtle grapefruit flavour and slightly lemony taste to me, which matches my very pale ale nicely.

Overall I'm happy with the hops for the price and the experience, just don't expect "true" Cascade flavours and you won't be disappointed. Going to brew a more subtle summer ale for Xmas for the non-craftbrew drinkers and this would go nicely in smaller quantities. For an IPA it'd need at least one other hop to add some flavour, if the Marco Polo is ok then it might be a nice combo.

 

[FNQ Bunyip]

Well with all this too read in 2 threds it must be time for a RESULTS thred ...

Must be 1 or 2 coming on tap by now ...

Cheers

 

[Leigh]

The flavours from hop tea isn't always an accurate representation of what will end up in beer, either.

All this banter and no-one has actually tried a FINISHED beer with these hops? Come on people, sure it's OK to discuss preconceptions on how you expect it to turn out based on the dry hop aroma, tea, etc., but surely, a few pages of shit-fighting is going too far. Can't we all just sit tight for a week or so until the first beers come in?

After all this crap being spewed in this thread, I'll be waiting a while before I decide whether these hops are worth it or not because quite frankly, Graham, your arrogance makes you VERY untrustworthy and since this buy (which I have nothing against) you now have a nice swag of bum-kissing disciples that will likely back up your enthusiasm for these hops.

EDIT: this shitty grammar is brought to you by iPhone.

Ahhh yes, but already the discussion has been subjective, with no one actually doing blind tests...so what will change with the beers? Everybodies taste buds will be jumping out of their mouths to find a difference...

The true test will be when a beer is entered in a comp...maybe...

 

[Ross]

Ahhh yes, but already the discussion has been subjective, with no one actually doing blind tests...so what will change with the beers? Everybodies taste buds will be jumping out of their mouths to find a difference...

The true test will be when a beer is entered in a comp...maybe...

The true test IMO will be if you make a beer that you truely enjoy - That's all that matters really.

Cheers Ross