Throw Out Your Cubes

[A3k]

Another no-chiller here. It may not be the perfect world for the beer itself, but it allows me to brew a 100L batch, but only ferment 2 x 25L at a time. And as a bonus the 2 fermentors are rarely full of the same beer, rather than being hit with 100L of 1 style of beer.

QldKev

Im a no-chiller.

I have bugger all time at the moment, and struggle to find 4 hours in a block to brew. No Chilling means I can brew in 3.5-4 hours, including cleanup.

I tried chilling twice with an immersion heater I made. I threw both out due to infection. It was either exposure in the kettle as it cooled, poor connections in the copper elbows etc letting tap water into the beer, or a flavour I get from US05 which I now dont like (I get it massively with JS golden ale). Anyway, I got deterred by this, and dont use my immersion chiller any more.



Also, I do anywhere between 50lt to 80lt batches. As QldKev said, I love the advantage of making hop differences and yeast difference easily so I get several different beers out of the same wort. No reason you cant do this when chilling though, but youd have to be more organised. Ive made the beer for my engagement party. One keg has a really hoppy APA and another from the same batch is similar, but much more subdued hopwise.

 

[WarmBeer]

External: 860Wx890Hx550D
Internal: 730Wx730Hx410D
Hump: 180Wx170H

4 corneys on the floor. Bottle and 1 keg on the hump, with sleeve.

These measurements are not exact. give a +/- 10mm to most of them. My tape measure sucks, and I've never been one for accurate measurements at the best of times.

This is the H215X

Uhh, dude, where's my thread?

 

[sama]

Groundhog day.

 

[zebba]

LOL. My head is filled with a codeine haze from tonsillitis, and a shiny haze from the celli taps that arrived yesterday.

Thanks mate.

 

[Amber Fluid]

Oh dear, I can't believe I just wasted 30 minnutes of tax payers money to read this whole thread at work and the best thing I got was to perve on Yardy's rig and avatar!!

 

[Peteoz77]

I brew double batches, and I use an immersion chiller. My brew day is complete and cleaned up in 4 hours
Just Saying.
I also use tank water and just run it back into the tank...

I like my 3.5 hour brew days.
I like my cubes.

My time is precious to me, yours may not.

 

[argon]

I've been a long time No Chiller and love the convenience. I recently acquired a 30 plate chiller and have done a few doubles with it. The amount of water required to chill 40L down as low as i could get it even with whirlpool recircing (approx 25C with my prechilled SEQLD water) borders on criminal... luckily i capture it all and use it in the washing machine or around the brewery, but i still feel massive guilt running that much water out at once.

The other few things that i don't like about chilling is;
- the amount of time it takes... typically over 30mins before i can get it to 25C then another hour in the fridge till pitching
- the extra stuffing around adjusting flow rates and monitoring temps
- ensuring that the fermentors are ready with yeast going and space in the fermenting fridge

I'll continue to use both methods as necessary.. .typically with anything that requires big late hopping to be rapidly chilled.

Also the stuff about increased DMS production in No Chilled beer is plain bullshit... the science doesn't even back these claims.

 

[Phoney]

Groundhog day.

You reckon!

An chill vs nochill thread pops up every 3 months on here.

Move along people...

another no chill thread. wow. as far as i can see the only poeple who like to bag out on no chill are those that have never tried the method.

Meh, I no chilled for the first 2 years of brewing before I bought a chiller. I wouldnt go back to no chilling, for reasons already covered 10x in this thread, and 10x in the last thread, and the thread before that, etc.

 

[Jazzafish]

Those who know me also know that when it comes to No-Chill I am at best not an advocate.
I have never, and probably never will, disparage the "Fresh Wort Kits" that are available from many suppliers, they are streets ahead of standard kit brews but in the end thats what they are.
I pose the question...what makes no chill fly?
## It causes no more reported cases of botulism that conventional chilling.
## It allows you to brew over two days rather than one
## It saves the cost of a chiller
## You can't tell the difference (purely subjective and should be not be here but passes due to sarcasm)
## It saves water
## Late hopping is difficult as the alpha acids continue to isomorise in the cube
## Aroma hopping presents even greater problems than late hopping.
## DMS forms
## It adds another path to infection
## It takes more work, more time, more water and more chemicals to clean a cube than an immersion chiller.

A small investment (not more than the cost of a couple of cubes) will produce (subjectively) better beer, certainly reduce the formation of DMS, increase late hop aroma (if thats what you want), get your IBU's closer to the recipe you follow and allow you to use your waste water on your garden (which means I guess it's not waste!).
The current issue of Zymurgy (The Journal of the American Home Brewers Association) has a Geek article about wort chilling which you check out if you are a member.
Nine (9) meters of 12.7mm OD copper coils will set you back about $45.
The graphs and my experience show that you can cool 5 USGal (18ish litres) of boiling wort to 27C with this 9 meters (re-coiled to fit your kettle ) in about 18 minuteds and about half that if you whirlpool, or even just move the wort around constantly.
I whirlpool with a pump and here is what it looks like Break and Trub

Your wort is now ready to pitch, no more waiting till the next day, no more cleaning the cube as well as the fermentor, your $45 immersion chiller is hosed off at the same time as your kettle, life is good and as you savour the fresh hop aroma of your Yes-Chill beer you wonder how to re-use those cubes and thank your personal diety that you are not a sheep.!!

K

Some interesting points... For the record I sometimes chill and sometimes no chill depending on what I'm trying to brew and how much time I have to achieve it.

* botulism... not an issue in either method
* split day brewing... just a time thing, can be suitable or not suitable
* cost of a chiller is a fair point if you are starting up - no chill is somewhat a new method in home brewing
* Chilled beers are different to no chilled beers if brewing the same recipe. If you have the means, test it for yourself on a split/double batch. I notice the difference, mainly in mid to late hopped beers. There is a strong argument for teaking the recipe, but I struggle to adjust recipes to suit when no chilling hoppy beers. But the world of cube hopping is a fun one - not the same and I doubt reproducable when chilling.
* If you waste water chilling or no chilling, you are doing it wrong. I use the same amount brewing both methods.
* Late hopping is the only reason I still chill, aside from wanting to fast track the finished product/start fermenting due to being out of beer!
* Aroma hopping... I get most of this from dry hopping, but still a valid point
* DMS... Ive only had an issue with DMS when playing with shorter boil times, both chilled and no chilled
* Infections... if you get them you are doing it wrong! Both methods
* It takes more work, more time, more water and more chemicals to clean a cube than an immersion chiller... Sorry, don't believe this!

Fact of the matter is both methods have advantages, and I opt for the appropriate method to suit me. It is like comparing apples and oranges. Both give you fruit, but different fruit with different advantages.

 

[Shed101]

I may chill.
I may slow chill.
I may no chill.

So may you.

I don't care.
You don't care.

Glad we got that sorted.

 

[Maxt]

To add to the soup:

I use a Jamil style chiller. Cools to 20deg in about 20 mins. Water tank with pump used so no water wasted. I also no sparge as I have a 60L mash tun, that saves me some time.

I don't really understand the comment about where all the time gets wasted chilling though? The coil goes in the kettle with 15m mins to go, so no cleaning time wasted, and the whole operation only takes 20 mins...anyhoo

The real issue that all of you have missed is that DrK is taking the piss. He doesn't chill either. He is a devoted BIAB, iso hop loving no chiller from waaay back. <_<

 

[manticle]

To add to the soup:

I use a Jamil style chiller. Cools to 20deg in about 20 mins. Water tank with pump used so no water wasted. I also no sparge as I have a 60L mash tun, that saves me some time.

I don't really understand the comment about where all the time gets wasted chilling though? The coil goes in the kettle with 15m mins to go, so no cleaning time wasted, and the whole operation only takes 20 mins...anyhoo

The real issue that all of you have missed is that DrK is taking the piss. He doesn't chill either. He is a devoted BIAB, iso hop loving no chiller from waaay back. <_<

People with water tanks should chill to their heart's content. If I ever get one, I will buy a plate chiller and use both methods, beer dependent. I have brewed both ways - NC suits my current set-up.

I figure drK is fishing rather than pisstaking and if that gives him pleasure then all power to him. He caught a few, some were undersized.

However the ensuing discussion may offer some valid points to new brewers who may not be aware of the eleven million discussions already in existence.

 

[argon]

I don't really understand the comment about where all the time gets wasted chilling though? The coil goes in the kettle with 15m mins to go, so no cleaning time wasted, and the whole operation only takes 20 mins...anyhoo

Ever done it with 29C ambient water?... i think it may take a bit longer.

Time it takes to chill means nothing if your not stating source water temp.

If i lived in Colorado and brewed in winter i'd be able to chill faster than that... but i don't.

 

[Hippy]

I no chill but my cubes have rounded edges. Is that ok?

 

[stux]

I like my 3.5 hour brew days.
I like my cubes.

My time is precious to me, yours may not.

Being able to make the starter from the actual wort's kettle dregs is a bonus too.

Being able to have a cube ready for when a fermenter comes available... gold.

 

[Diesel80]

Being able to make the starter from the actual wort's kettle dregs is a bonus too.

Being able to have a cube ready for when a fermenter comes available... gold.

Or using kettle dregs for a mini hop boil to get the aroma back that is supposedly lost with N/C, also gold.

Tried this on the 3rd AG i did, it has just hit the keg. Early indication is mini boil could be a winner, and may become standard for my future N/C as they hit the fermenter.

Cheers,
D80

 

[Jazzafish]

Ever done it with 29C ambient water?... i think it may take a bit longer.

Time it takes to chill means nothing if your not stating source water temp.

If i lived in Colorado and brewed in winter i'd be able to chill faster than that... but i don't.

Pretty valid point about hot tap water. To work with this I chill in 2 stages. First with the hot water out from the chiller is collected into my HLT if brewing a second beer or into a bucket for cleaning. After getting my cleaning water ready, the water coming out isn't as aggressively hot and I use it to fill a vessel maxed out with frozen 3 Litre milk bottles. The tap turns off and a pump recirculated the ice water through. Ales ready to pitch in ~20mins in ambient 30 - 40 degrees.

 

[MarkBastard]

Someone else's theory will never over ride my own knowledge gained through reality.

 

[loikar]

Someone else's theory will never over ride my own knowledge gained through reality.

Just wanted to draw attention to M^B's post above.

BF

 

[komodo]

44Gall drum $10
submersable pump $40
copper for immersion chiller $40ish
misc bits a pieces $20
cheap hose $10
total $120
being able to chill without wasting water - priceless

That said I do no chill also.
Both have pros and cons.