Throw Out Your Cubes

[Florian]

The graphs and my experience show that you can cool 5 USGal (18ish litres) of boiling wort to 27C
[...]
Your wort is now ready to pitch, no more waiting till the next day

You pitch at 27 degrees?

 

[proudscum]

## An immersion chiller adds another path to infection too, albeit not directly but through contamination from the outside environment as the kettle cools and draws in air.

after 16 years of using this method i would say that not one infection has been due to the chiller.dirty spot on a fermenter or bottle an sometimes the ingredient but not the chiller and the old brewery lived in a dirt floor garage,

 

[benno1973]

The figures I used were from (or extrapolated from) the current Zymurgy not from my personal figures, though they seem fine to me..my current set up, 2 x pumps in parallel recirculating whirlpool immersion chiller gets my 50l from just sub boil to sub 35C in about 8 minutes in January in Canberra, after that the temp drop is not so good, none the less I fit inside the square.

The plan is to add a whirlpool pump into the system, hopefully that will help. I also have a prechiller which I'm toying with to drop the temp of the water heading into the CF chiller, so that may also speed up the process.

Thanks for the heads up - I'll read the article.

 

[Cocko]

I whirlpool with a pump and here is what it looks like Break and Trub

I whirlpool with a spoon and no chill....


... its rad!







EDIT: 120L pot

 

[Muscovy_333]

I guess when you dump a chiller into freshly boiled wort its going to sanitise rather quickly.
Maybe if you chiller is good enough a couple of spore formers like botilinum will get through but it just adds to the flavour eh..

 

[Ian Gommers]

I like pina colada's and long walks on the beach. Not one infection yet.

 

[Kai]

## An immersion chiller adds another path to infection too, albeit not directly but through contamination from the outside environment as the kettle cools and draws in air.

after 16 years of using this method i would say that not one infection has been due to the chiller.dirty spot on a fermenter or bottle an sometimes the ingredient but not the chiller and the old brewery lived in a dirt floor garage,

Yep. I'm sure the vast majority of immersion chillers have the same experience.

What I was getting at is the tiny probability of an infection occurring. After all, it comes down to the statistical likelihood of any invasive microorganisms being present in your environment, of contaminating your wort, and of being there in sufficient numbers to grow enough to produce a detectable infection. The chance of that is indeed small.

That risk is statistically there though, say perhaps you have a tree in the yard with some esoteric yeast infection, or your neighbour is a diehard lambic brewer.

I had no intention of denigrating immersion chilling, just pointing out that, like a cube, it is indeed another potential point of infection.

 

[benno1973]

That risk is statistically there though, say perhaps you have a tree in the yard with some esoteric yeast infection, or your neighbour is a diehard lambic brewer.

Yep, that's always been a worry for me. My wort sits, esentially uncovered (as there's a big ass chiller hanging out of it and the lid only partially fits on) while it cools for 30-40 mins. Recently we've planted a whole bunch of new fruit trees, including grapes in a trellis close by, and I'm definitely going to be paranoid when the fruit comes on! (Hence the desirre to get my chiller time down)

 

[Nick JD]

I don't even no-chill.

 

[Cocko]

I don't even no-chill.

Rad.

 

[Deebo]

I don't own a chiller but will most likely get one some day. (First want to get a water filter of some description)
Not really hurrying because I like the convenience of splitting up the brew day to ferment when I have a free spot in the fridge or free time.

 

[Nick JD]

Rad.

Super vert rad.

 

[Cocko]

Super vert rad.

Edging on gnarly.

 

[dr K]

You pitch at 27 degrees?

No
But I find it difficult to cool below that temp with mains water (be it immerision, plate or counterflow).
For my purposes I find that a direct pour from the kettle into a clean stainless steel stock pot, thence via a funnel to my SS fermentor (s) provides both excellent aeration and cooling to yeast happy temps ..sorry OT

 

[Nick JD]

For my purposes I find that a direct pour from the kettle into a clean stainless steel stock pot, thence via a funnel to my SS fermentor (s) provides both excellent aeration and cooling to yeast happy temps ..sorry OT

Bullshit. You pitch at 27.

 

[IainMcLean]

That risk is statistically there though, say perhaps you have a tree in the yard with some esoteric yeast infection, or your neighbour is a diehard lambic brewer.

Stop the world - I want to get off!

What are you doing to that poor tree to give it a yeast infection, esoteric or otherwise.... You'll have to be careful - Canesten is antifungal and if you get any in your super-duper-chilled wort you'll kill the yeasties.

Better leave the tree alone really... let it heal.

 

[Kai]

Yep, that's always been a worry for me. My wort sits, esentially uncovered (as there's a big ass chiller hanging out of it and the lid only partially fits on) while it cools for 30-40 mins. Recently we've planted a whole bunch of new fruit trees, including grapes in a trellis close by, and I'm definitely going to be paranoid when the fruit comes on! (Hence the desirre to get my chiller time down)

Yeah, this is exactly what I meant, and expressed in a better fashion.

For argument's sake, since I am effectively comparing risk of infection from a cube versus an immersion chiller, I'm going to waffle on a bit more as I only do when I'm tired but don't wanna go to bed (waaah).

There is definitely a risk of infection from a cube, as there is from an immersion chiller. What I like about the risk from a cube is that it is more in my control. I control which cube I use (is it new, dirty, scratched, etc.). I control how well I clean the cube and associated hoses & fittings. I also control where I choose to expose the wort in the cube to the open air, which is the biggest risk point assuming my cleaning has been sufficiently fastidious. My choice of brewing location is more limited, as it would be for most people, and would typically be outside on the verandah, or in the garage or shed if you're lucky enough to have one or the other to brew in. That means immersion chilling is relatively more exposed (due to limited choice of location, and also due to the longer time period when wort temperature is in the 'danger zone' for infection) and the there is a greater level of risk that is beyond the brewer's control.

Need to stress again that I am only debating fine points because I don't wanna go to bed (waaah). Just like the subjective argument that there is no difference in flavour profile between cube and a 'real chiller', the risks of infection are something that is going to vary hugely between brewers and methods and environments and so on. I think what I'm trying to say there is it's a tiny point compared to the whole picture.

Splitting hairs, yeah that's it. It's splitting hairs.

 

[Florian]

No
But I find it difficult to cool below that temp with mains water (be it immerision, plate or counterflow).
For my purposes I find that a direct pour from the kettle into a clean stainless steel stock pot, thence via a funnel to my SS fermentor (s) provides both excellent aeration and cooling to yeast happy temps ..sorry OT

I don't understand. How does your wort get from 27 to say 20 (I won't even mention 9 degrees for lagers) by 'direct pouring' into a stock pot and then funneling to a fermenter?

Unless you live on either north or south pole I really can't see that happening.

 

[Kai]

Stop the world - I want to get off!

What are you doing to that poor tree to give it a yeast infection, esoteric or otherwise.... You'll have to be careful - Canesten is antifungal and if you get any in your super-duper-chilled wort you'll kill the yeasties.

Better leave the tree alone really... let it heal.

I like trees, gotta problem with that?

What I do in my yard with my flora is my business, not yours.

 

[IainMcLean]

I like trees, gotta problem with that?

What I do in my yard with my flora is my business, not yours.

Trees have feelings too... even if she has a name like Flora you can't just treat her like a lump of wood...