Style Of The Week 9/5/07 -sour Ales

[neonmeate]

Picked myself up a bottle of lindemans and cantillon gueuze today and Im thinking I should make the most of them and use the dregs in something. How does this sound;

35% malted wheat
65% pils malt
10 IBUs of clean bittering

Primary ferment with a clean yeast (1056 or a lager strain), then split into 2 keg and secondary with the dregs of each until ready? I currently have a saison on tap that was conditioned with the dregs from orval and am really surprised at how much character the brett dregs produced. Im hoping for similar but different (yummier) results from the lindemans and cantillon.

yeah my cuvee rene dregs have already given my saison a big lambicy barnyard smell after three weeks! recommended!

 

[kabooby]

I have not made a sour beer yet but I have been doing heaps of research for my next brew. The only thing I would change is to try and use the lowest alpha hops you have. You want to still get the preservative effect from the hops but not the IBU, so the more hops for 10IBU the better.

Let us know how it goes

I just picked up 2 x pinlock kegs for the specific purpose of sour beers. Can't wait

Kabooby

 

[pmolou]

Picked myself up a bottle of lindemans and cantillon gueuze today and Im thinking I should make the most of them and use the dregs in something. How does this sound;

35% malted wheat
65% pils malt
10 IBUs of clean bittering

Primary ferment with a clean yeast (1056 or a lager strain), then split into 2 keg and secondary with the dregs of each until ready? I currently have a saison on tap that was conditioned with the dregs from orval and am really surprised at how much character the brett dregs produced. Im hoping for similar but different (yummier) results from the lindemans and cantillon.

sounds good as is but just incase i'[ll say i did the cantillon brewery tour and they use 60%pils malt and 40% unmalted wheat

 

[Jye]

yeah my cuvee rene dregs have already given my saison a big lambicy barnyard smell after three weeks! recommended!

Fantastic :lol:

I have not made a sour beer yet but I have been doing heaps of research for my next brew. The only thing I would change is to try and use the lowest alpha hops you have. You want to still get the preservative effect from the hops but not the IBU, so the more hops for 10IBU the better.

Ive been thinking about this and wasnt the 07 or 06 crop of Hall something like 2% AA? That would have been great to use. May have to poke around craftbrewer and see if there are any old crops hanging around in the back of the coldroom.

sounds good as is but just incase i'[ll say i did the cantillon brewery tour and they use 60%pils malt and 40% unmalted wheat

On the back of the bottle they have 35/65 but Im not worried about 5% either way. As for the wheat Ill stick to malted just to make things easy on myself, this little experiment is more about the yeast.

 

[kabooby]

Ive been thinking about this and wasnt the 07 or 06 crop of Hall something like 2% AA? That would have been great to use. May have to poke around craftbrewer and see if there are any old crops hanging around in the back of the coldroom.

Yeh they were, I have 140g of 2.1% Hallertauer in the freezer that I am going to use.

On the Cantillon website they say

Ingredients:
raw wheat 35%
malted barley 65%
dried hops (three years old) : 5 g per liter of beer

Kabooby

 

[pmolou]

there u go maybe my memories not so great haha

 

[warrenlw63]

Okay to re-open this most awesome thread I've got a question for the Flanders Red experts.

Mine's more or less getting close to bottling and I'm contemplating racking it onto some medium toasted French Oak chips to get some hints of vanilla and tannin etc.

Has anybody tried this? If so are there any tips I should heed? :unsure:

Thanks in advance.

Warren -

 

[Quintrex]

Okay to re-open this most awesome thread I've got a question for the Flanders Red experts.

Mine's more or less getting close to bottling and I'm contemplating racking it onto some medium toasted French Oak chips to get some hints of vanilla and tannin etc.

Has anybody tried this? If so are there any tips I should heed? :unsure:

Thanks in advance.

Warren -

From what I've read you should consider dropping them in boiling water for a few minutes to help sterilise them, just in case.

I've also heard that you should consider not using brand new chips in beer as the flavour is too strong, so consider storing some port on them for a couple of weeks first and then use em.
Q

 

[warrenlw63]

From what I've read you should consider dropping them in boiling water for a few minutes to help sterilise them, just in case.

I've also heard that you should consider not using brand new chips in beer as the flavour is too strong, so consider storing some port on them for a couple of weeks first and then use em.
Q

Cheers Q !!

I thought you'd be the "go-to" man... I've got a bottle of stinky Aldi port that will serve this purpose well. :lol:

Thanks for the heads up mate!

Warren -

 

[goatherder]

Warren,

I put my first FRA (20litres) on 30g of med toast french oak chips for the entire secondary (13 months). The oak is identifiable but in the background, very subtle. I wouldn't want much more. The chips wasted away to almost nothing by the end. The oak flavour was most obvious early in the long fermentation.

If you are worried about the flavour being too strong, the strength is determined by the amount you put in and by the contact time. If you are nearly ready to bottle, try adding 1/g per litre then taste it every few days until you are happy with it, then bottle. You'll find a couple of weeks will probably suffice. I wouldn't rack onto the chips - just add them to your fermentation vessel. I also wouldn't put port on the chips - FRA is a delicate beer and the port might overwhelm it. A porter or stout might be more appropriate for this approach.

Hope this helps.

Scott

 

[Jye]

Yeh they were, I have 140g of 2.1% Hallertauer in the freezer that I am going to use.

On the Cantillon website they say


Kabooby

I found my hops, Strisselspalt '05 AA 2.0% nicely aged at Craftbrewer

Link

 

[kabooby]

Great find Jye. Let us know how it turns out

kabooby

 

[Stuster]

Of course, those hops are aged in a freezer which isn't quite the same. Still, very low alpha so they might be the best thing.

I'm trying to work out how to hop a lambic without waiting for three years. I'm thinking of cheating and using the oven to force age them. Anyone tried this?

 

[Weizguy]

Of course, those hops are aged in a freezer which isn't quite the same. Still, very low alpha so they might be the best thing.

I'm trying to work out how to hop a lambic without waiting for three years. I'm thinking of cheating and using the oven to force age them. Anyone tried this?

Stu, I have about 500g of Cascade hop plugs, manually separated and aged 2 and a bit years at room temp.

How much do you need and I'll see if I can spare it?

you may need to pm to get a response B)

 

[beers]

If you are worried about the flavour being too strong, the strength is determined by the amount you put in and by the contact time.

True goatherder. It also depends on surface area of the chips. I've used a few different sizes of chips, mainly to Porters, in the past. I find smaller sized chips (I've used both Brewcraft American & French) can give quite a full on flavour in small amounts from 10-20g. I've got much better balanced results from the same amount of bigger sized chips... or even staves.

I opted for French Oak staves for my FRA. I broke one in half, steamed it for about 15mins, & chucked it along with the Roselare into secondary (HDPE) & left it for just over 2mths. It's my first attempt at a FRA & hasn't been bottled yet - it's spent another 3 months in a keg after transferring off the Oak. I'm planning on bottling in a few weeks but from sampling it when taking it off the Oak the oak wasn't too over the top.

Edit: There was an awesome Brewing Network Sunday Session show on oaking a few months back. Cant recall the guests name but it's well worth tracking down for some insight into the different methods of oaking a beer.

 

[warrenlw63]

Warren,

I put my first FRA (20litres) on 30g of med toast french oak chips for the entire secondary (13 months). The oak is identifiable but in the background, very subtle. I wouldn't want much more. The chips wasted away to almost nothing by the end. The oak flavour was most obvious early in the long fermentation.

If you are worried about the flavour being too strong, the strength is determined by the amount you put in and by the contact time. If you are nearly ready to bottle, try adding 1/g per litre then taste it every few days until you are happy with it, then bottle. You'll find a couple of weeks will probably suffice. I wouldn't rack onto the chips - just add them to your fermentation vessel. I also wouldn't put port on the chips - FRA is a delicate beer and the port might overwhelm it. A porter or stout might be more appropriate for this approach.

Hope this helps.

Scott

True goatherder. It also depends on surface area of the chips. I've used a few different sizes of chips, mainly to Porters, in the past. I find smaller sized chips (I've used both Brewcraft American & French) can give quite a full on flavour in small amounts from 10-20g. I've got much better balanced results from the same amount of bigger sized chips... or even staves.

I opted for French Oak staves for my FRA. I broke one in half, steamed it for about 15mins, & chucked it along with the Roselare into secondary (HDPE) & left it for just over 2mths. It's my first attempt at a FRA & hasn't been bottled yet - it's spent another 3 months in a keg after transferring off the Oak. I'm planning on bottling in a few weeks but from sampling it when taking it off the Oak the oak wasn't too over the top.

Edit: There was an awesome Brewing Network Sunday Session show on oaking a few months back. Cant recall the guests name but it's well worth tracking down for some insight into the different methods of oaking a beer.

Many thanks goat and beers ... This is invaluable advice.

I've been told a couple of times that the staves are more effective. I might enquire about some this week.

Speaking of Lambics. Once I clear my carboys this is next on my agenda. I've got around 150-200g of 8 year old NZ Goldings cones that are nice and stinky. Will be perfect for the job.

Beers think I might hunt down that BN podcast.

Warren -

 

[beers]

Warren,

I believe it was this one - http://thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/The-Sun...08-Shea-Comfort

Cheers

 

[kabooby]

Of course, those hops are aged in a freezer which isn't quite the same. Still, very low alpha so they might be the best thing.

I'm trying to work out how to hop a lambic without waiting for three years. I'm thinking of cheating and using the oven to force age them. Anyone tried this?

I am happy to use old hops with a low alpha that have been stored in a fridge or freezer. That way you get the reduced alpha without the stinky cheesy hop character. I don't think it would come through in the final beer anyway but I am just not real keen on putting them into my beer.

There was a podcast on the BN with Mike Melm who has been making lambics for something like 30 years. He uses old hops that have been aged in the fridge for the same reason.

Kabooby

 

[mikem108]

There was a podcast on the BN with Mike Melm who has been making lambics for something like 30 years. He uses old hops that have been aged in the fridge for the same reason

Beauty....sour beer here I come, I thought I had another year or so to wait for my hops to be ready

 

[warrenlw63]

Warren,

I believe it was this one - http://thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/The-Sun...08-Shea-Comfort

Cheers

Thanks beers!

I've actually got the Jamil Lambic podcast on ATM. I'll hunt this one down next.

Warren -