Style Of The Week 9/5/07 -sour Ales

[bconnery]

Jye,

We have a limited stock of 12 year old hops in stock for this very use - just not got around to putting them on the site. Can't remember the name off hand but a tettnang derivative from memory & a very low alpha back then. they still smell beautiful as well.

cheers Ross

Can I have some then?
Let me know when you do as I have another fermenter that is looking like it needs to be 'retired' into lambic production

 

[pmolou]

yay my pellicle just fully covered surface of my lambic and now yet im so tempted to bottle some up and taste it damn i hate how sour beers take so long. Has a massive horse aroma and some other smells im not sure of but the wyeast lambic blend has seemed to do the job...
just a question i've heard of the wyeast lambic blend just dropping out once it chews everything up and never waking up again do you think if i racked off my lambic and put a new brew ontop of the dregs in the fermenter it would start up again or should i pitch a new smack pack and dregs of commercials??? just a question gonna wait another 3 months been 3 already till i rack

 

[kabooby]

I was planning on fermenting my Belgian Dark Strong with All Brett C and Brett B but they didn't really take off in the starter. The starter wort had plenty of Brett character but the gravity wasn't dropping after 2 weeks in the starter. I ended up adding a starter of WLP570 to the mix to speed things up. I will pitch in the next few days. While it won't be an all brett brew it will still have plenty of brett character.

Kabooby

 

[Franko]

I was planning on fermenting my Belgian Dark Strong with All Brett C and Brett B but they didn't really take off in the starter. The starter wort had plenty of Brett character but the gravity wasn't dropping after 2 weeks in the starter. I ended up adding a starter of WLP570 to the mix to speed things up. I will pitch in the next few days. While it won't be an all brett brew it will still have plenty of brett character.

Kabooby

I hope those Brett cultures kick off for you mate

 

[kabooby]

Yeh it was funny. The yeast appeared to be growing on the bottom of the flask and there was a heap of brett character developing, but the gravity wasn't dropping. I slanted some and it appeared to grow on the slant no probs, so I will try again soon.

Kabooby

 

[kook]

Yeh it was funny. The yeast appeared to be growing on the bottom of the flask and there was a heap of brett character developing, but the gravity wasn't dropping. I slanted some and it appeared to grow on the slant no probs, so I will try again soon.

Kabooby

It will grow, but as I said in the previous brett thread, it needs large pitches to keep it going. Work it up from a pack into a 500ml starter, to 5L, to 10L mini batch, to 20L batch, etc. Once it starts going it'll keep going, but underpitch and it will take weeks to progress. Fine if you have a really high level of confidence in you wort stability, but otherwise you risk the growth of other organisms during that lag phase.

For some, that might not be a problem as they may even compliment the brett. But not so great if you really want to emulate some of the beers from Pizza Port / Russian River et al.

 

[kabooby]

I had a full vial of Brett C and a full vial of Brett B into a 2 litre starter, I thought this would have been enough. The vials were out of date from October last year but I didn't expect this to be a problem either.

Kabooby

 

[kook]

I've got another ~ 45L of flanders red going again now. I used a slightly more simple grain bill this time, and a long boil to help get the right colour. Fermented with US05 in primary, then racked to secondary and pitched roselare.

Also bottled an amber ale with brett (2 bottles of Orval) Waiting for it to carb up now.

Bottled half of this today. Blended at a rate of 2.2:1 with older FRA (brewed in March 2007). Ended up with 32L bottled!

I'll post again once it's had a month or so in the bottle, but from the bottling bucket it tasted great. The blend worked well, as the older beer was considerably sourer. The newer beer has a lovely melanoidiny malt backbone with subtle funk and light acidity. The blend seemed to emphasise the best of both!

 

[Jye]

Finally brewing the base beer which will have the dregs of Lindemans and Cantillon added to in separate kegs. The only change to the below recipe Ill probably make is adding 90g (the whole packet) just so I dont have 10g kicking around. Im guessing the AA has at least dropped to 1.5% which will keep the IBUs to below 10.

Lindemans & Cantillon Lambics
Straight (Unblended) Lambic


Type: All Grain
Date: 4/05/2009
Batch Size: 38.00 L
Brewer: Jye
Boil Size: 45.98 L Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: SK Brew Hous
Taste Rating(out of 50): 35.0 Brewhouse Efficiency: 80.0
Taste Notes:

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
4.00 kg Pilsner, Galaxy (Barrett Burston) (2.0 SRM) Grain 65.0 %
2.15 kg Wheat Malt (Barrett Burston) (2.0 SRM) Grain 35.0 %

80.00 gm Strisslespalt [2.00%] (60 min) Hops 11.2 IBU

3.00 gm Calcium Chloride (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
3.00 gm Calcium Sulfate (Gypsum) (Mash 60.0 min) Misc

2 Pkgs Safale American US-56 Yeast-Ale


Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.040 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.000 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.010 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.000 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 4.0 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 0.0 %
Bitterness: 11.2 IBU Calories: -4 cal/l
Est Color: 3.0 SRM Color: Color


Mash Profile

Mash Name: SK Brew Hous Mash Total Grain Weight: 6.15 kg
Sparge Water: 37.76 L Grain Temperature: 25.0 C
Sparge Temperature: 100.0 C TunTemperature: 25.0 C
Adjust Temp for Equipment: FALSE Mash PH: 5.4 PH

Name Description Step Temp Step Time
Mash In Add 15.37 L of water at 74.5 C 68.0 C 90 min

 

[petesbrew]

Got some of the wyeast bruxellensis culture. Not sure if I understand the sour game much yet, but pretty sure its used in conjunction with a neutral flavoured yeast, say US56. Do you reckon it would go with a swiss lager S-189 yeast?
The plan is for either a flanders red or oud bruin, or somewhere in between.
Just throwing ideas round in my head at the moment.

 

[Quintrex]

Got some of the wyeast bruxellensis culture. Not sure if I understand the sour game much yet, but pretty sure its used in conjunction with a neutral flavoured yeast, say US56. Do you reckon it would go with a swiss lager S-189 yeast?
The plan is for either a flanders red or oud bruin, or somewhere in between.
Just throwing ideas round in my head at the moment.

I wouldn't go a lager yeast, I'd go US 56 it's reasonably acid tolerant.
Also if you want anything with sourness you'll probably need something other than brett to getreasonable acidity. probably add some lacto or just save yourself the hassle and use the wyeast roeselare blend if you are making a flanders style of beer.
This blend has a neutral ale yeast, Brett. L and lacto as far as i can remember.

Edit. You could brew an orval clone with us 56 and Brett. B... there's some good recipes out there for it.

 

[barls]

pete im fermenting my latest one with 515 then racking on to cherries and roselare yeast in a couple of days. ill happily put a small amount of roselare in a vial for you and you can culture it up.

 

[petesbrew]

pete im fermenting my latest one with 515 then racking on to cherries and roselare yeast in a couple of days. ill happily put a small amount of roselare in a vial for you and you can culture it up.

Cheers Barls, I think I'm swapping some of that with Thommo. But I'll save you a stubby.

Haven't tried an Orval. Will pick one up next time I see some. Hopefully Dan's has some!

 

[manticle]

Are you intending using the two yeasts at the same time?

The way I do it (and have seen it done) is to ferment out with the normal sacch yeast. Mash high and include some dextrinous malt so it doesn't attenuate too dry. Then rack to secondary onto the brett yeast and any flavourings you want and leave it for as long as you can (glass is best with no headspace but plastic is definitely OK for at least 6 months).

Have done this with 3787 and US05 from memory

 

[petesbrew]

Are you intending using the two yeasts at the same time?

The way I do it (and have seen it done) is to ferment out with the normal sacch yeast. Mash high and include some dextrinous malt so it doesn't attenuate too dry. Then rack to secondary onto the brett yeast and any flavourings you want and leave it for as long as you can (glass is best with no headspace but plastic is definitely OK for at least 6 months).

Have done this with 3787 and US05 from memory

US05, then the brett yeast was the plan.
MIght play it safe and go with the US05.

 

[petesbrew]

I've got a question about the French oak chips. I've got about 30g in a bag floating in the primary of my Flanders red/brown.
I'm going to rack the beer over to a secondary tonight with the brett yeast, but what about the oak chips? Leave it behind? bring it across? replace with fresh oak chips?
Cheers in advance.
Pete

 

[manticle]

How oaky does the beer taste at the moment?

 

[petesbrew]

How oaky does the beer taste at the moment?

Not very. Actually it's ended up a bit thin & tasteless at the moment. Would dry hopping with 10g Styrian be out of style?
Cheers
Pete

 

[manticle]

There is no real style requirements for this kind of beer I reckon. I've had super sour, lightly hopped beers and highly hopped funky beers (like Orval which I believe is dry hopped with styrians).

It's all about flavour and experimentation.

If you want more oak flavour, add new fresh oak, if you're happy with the level then leave it out. Try toasting the oak in the oven or dry fry pan.

 

[kabooby]

Just added some different fruit to my 09 lambic. Last year I added 1.5kg of cherries to 5 litres and it has turned out really nice. I have now added some apricot and peach and can't wait for the results.

So now I have
9l of straight lambic
7l of Apricot lambic @ 300g p/l
6l of peach lambic @ 300g p/l
4l of Kriek @ 300g p/l from last year that was bottled yesterday

Looking forward to trying these. Might have to think about another batch soon to start blending.

Patience Kabooby........... Patience