Bad batches or my mistake?

[livo]

Thanks everyone for your input. I'm not convinced that using rainwater is a problem. It never has been for me or my father. I used it for 5 years between 15 and 10 years ago, and I re-started brewing using it nearly 2 years ago. These periods were in different locations, and I've made hundreds of brews from cans. My overall success rate is well over 95% with most, if not all failures attributed to temperature control / autolysis. I've not had to pour out many brews at all. My success rate here over the last 2 years is around 98% with all other than these 2 batches being easily attributed to a known problem or cock up on my part. I simply don't see those figures as being "just lucky". There can't be too much wrong with my water or I would be getting crappy beer more often than this.

I'm still going to wait for the 2 batches just bottled to condition, so I can taste them and determine if I think it was something I did. I just don't believe it was the water.

 

[An Ankoù]

That's different. But as he said, it's treated, not straight off the roof. But in this case, some sort of further treatment might be warranted. But it's only a recent issue


No, we shouldn't, not if it's tap water. Not seen any brewing guides mention this - it's not seen as a risk as you claim. You mash at 60+C, and then you boil wort. There's no scientific basis for boiling water twice. Sanitation is important once you get to fermenting stage. A lot of brewers just make up stuff because they think it's a good idea.

I'm no overly sciencey brewer, but I sanitise well and lost count of the brews I've done in 8 years. Not one infection. Some bad beers yes, but that's down to bad recipe choices

Yeah. You're right. There's no need to boil the water twice as long as it gets boiled once.
I got the impression that the OP was using extract kits, rinsing out the cans with hot water and then topping up the volume straight from the tank.
As for rainwater. I used to use it for lager brewing because it's soft and I lived in a hard water area. I wouldn't even start collecting the water until it had been raining for half an hour as this gives a chance for the roof to get washed relatively clean. Even so, If I didn't use it within 48 hours it's start developing a flora. It still got boiled as I brew AG. I'd never use water from a rainwater butt.

 

[An Ankoù]

Thanks everyone for your input. I'm not convinced that using rainwater is a problem. It never has been for me or my father. I used it for 5 years between 15 and 10 years ago, and I re-started brewing using it nearly 2 years ago. These periods were in different locations, and I've made hundreds of brews from cans. My overall success rate is well over 95% with most, if not all failures attributed to temperature control / autolysis. I've not had to pour out many brews at all. My success rate here over the last 2 years is around 98% with all other than these 2 batches being easily attributed to a known problem or cock up on my part. I simply don't see those figures as being "just lucky". There can't be too much wrong with my water or I would be getting crappy beer more often than this.

I'm still going to wait for the 2 batches just bottled to condition, so I can taste them and determine if I think it was something I did. I just don't believe it was the water.

Tracking down a problem can be a real pain in the butt. I had a period where all my beers stank like open drains. I tried every cleaning regime under the sun and pitched new yeast every time. It turned out there was nothing wrong with my cleaning, but something causing my yeast to stress out (MJ-M42). I changed the yeast and haven't had the problem since except when I pitched M42 again several years later.

 

[livo]

Well it was clearly my mistake. The 2nd batches of same kits (using the same rainwater) are both fine. I have no idea what went wrong as I followed the exact same procedure as I always do.

 

[Hangover68]

Well it was clearly my mistake. The 2nd batches of same kits (using the same rainwater) are both fine. I have no idea what went wrong as I followed the exact same procedure as I always do.

Some things you just cant explain, when i lived at home we only had tank water off a colourbond roof and i was only brewing kits back then so nothing was boiled - as they say, **** happens.

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Some things you just cant explain, when i lived at home we only had tank water off a colourbond roof and i was only brewing kits back then so nothing was boiled - as they say, **** happens.

Literally.

 

[Malchizedec]

Other than water profile being on point I can't see why rain water would be an issue.

It gets boiled (unless you are doing a raw or extract brew).

So I'm putting my 2c with the "not an issue crowd".

 

[livo]

I have to ask though, is the Canadian Blonde meant to be a slightly cloudy beer? While the flavour and overall behaviour of both of the second brews was far better than the first (botch) batch, it is apparent that the CB is slightly cloudy upon pouring, while the Mexican Cerveza is crystal clear.

 

[Hangover68]

I have to ask though, is the Canadian Blonde meant to be a slightly cloudy beer? While the flavour and overall behaviour of both of the second brews was far better than the first (botch) batch, it is apparent that the CB is slightly cloudy upon pouring, while the Mexican Cerveza is crystal clear.

It should be clear.

 

[livo]

It should be clear.

It has cleared now. Pretty cold nights in my shed have caused slower than usual bottle conditioning. The Cerveza cleared in 2 weeks, but the blonde took 3.

 

[livo]

Ding, ding, ding, ding.
This is a light bulb moment. I now believe that the problem I had reported here, nearly 10 months ago, was the beginning of my current infection problem with the 2 Coopers FVs. The second and third batch discussed here, which were OK, I must have managed to get out and bottle before it soured. This is when it started, and I've been very lucky to only have to dump a few batches.

I think I recall the white powdery surface on these early problem brews, but I guess I didn't relate it. Even now, with the problem well known to me, if I take the beer out early enough and bottle it before it sours, it still drinks OK. This was probably the difference between the 2 batches discussed in this thread. I managed to save the second and third batches by luck.

Edit: Answering my own questions.

1) What about the 4 brews (2 double batches) that were OK in this thread? There are 2 likely answers here.
a. I took them out of the FV's early enough that they hadn't yet soured. The first "bad" batch was 10 days in the FV. Even the 3rd batch here, which was questionable, had some of the same characteristics of this infection. I mentioned over-priming or gassy bottles. 10 days is too long for this infected beer to stay in the FVs. This is still happening. I just got lucky.
b. Winter. The timing of this is colder weather, which probably gave me a bit of leniency in the severity of the infection.

2) Why didn't I connect these occurrences as the same issue?
a. After the second and third batches seemed OK, I just assumed I'd cocked something up with the first one that was off.
b. I hadn't at that point realised it was common to these two FVs, although lucky for me, I did write about them here.
c. Over the period immediately after I posted this, my brewing took a major downturn. Firstly, I had Covid and was really crook for 2 weeks followed by a trip to Qld, so no brewing at all. When I came back, I was busy helping my 3 kids move house and relocating my "brewery" room to the opposite end of the property. All 3 kids (young adults) either moved out or back into our home, which kept me fairly busy.
d. Throughout this period of downtime, I continued to brew where possible, but I only used the other 4 FVs. Due to the physical size of the Cooper's FVs I just didn't use them until more recently and I now realise that the infection I'm having issues with presently has been in these 2 FVs since May last year.