Style Of The Week 9/5/07 -sour Ales

[Stuster]

Hmm... impeckable timing, i was just down at supercheap purchasing a jerry can to do my first lambic in
since i didnt want to tie up one of my existing fermenters thought i'd jump on ahb and start reading up on em and it happens to be the Style of the week :blink:

Once more my Super Special Mind Reading Powers (tm) amaze the world.

 

[goatherder]

So the red mystery isn't solved for the hber- the couple of recipes in BYO have Special B in them, maybe that's a clue for Caraaroma.

How about the question of oak chips in the secondary for a flanders red?

Jeff Sparrow seems to think so in BYO, any takers?

 

[bconnery]

In the belgian classic beer styles book it mentioned the long boil as a method for this style. This way a deeper hue is achieved without a corresponding amount of darker malts. I don't have the book with me

Mine certainly had a satisfying red hue. So perhaps a little melanoidin and a longer boil, but short of the 6hrs I did?

http://www.belgianstyle.com/mmguide/style/sour.html mentions the long boil too...

 

[tipsy_mcstagger]

what about weyermanns Carared for red colour? I havent used it but just bought some hoping for that exact result.

 

[kook]

what about weyermanns Carared for red colour? I havent used it but just bought some hoping for that exact result.

Somewhere I found a comparison of equal amounts carared, caraaroma, etc etc after steeping. Caraaroma turned out to be the "reddest" of the lot.

 

[Stuster]

Goatherder, there was a group brew discussion on one of the US sites recently to get a red lager. The consensus IIRC was to use just a touch of Roast Barley. Other suggestions were for Special B (Caraaroma should do it) and melanoidin. I've never used it but Carared supposedly doesn't really give you a red colour. :huh:

Oh, and Jamil's recipe has nearly 24% Munich, some Caramunich and some Special B if that helps.

 

[warrenlw63]

What about Carafa III added at the sparge?

Warren -

 

[Trent]

Warren
I have draunbk one of Goughs beers that had carafa III added at sparge (IIRC) and it had a nice red tinge to it. Maybe try that, Goatherder?

Dark Faerytale
Yep, the 20L spring water containers is what I am on the prowl for, something that wont tie up existing fermenters, and I can put away and forget about for a year or 2. that way I can try and keep up my 46L a week that has occupied my last few weeks! Now that I am unemployed, I will have the time, but probably not the money. Dont think it'll stop me trying, but.
All the best
Trent
PS Good to see so much input on such left of field beers. Keep it up. And Stuster, will the "super special mind reading powers (tm)" come up with a style I have always intended on brewing, and never gotten round to it, next week? Quite impressed by your strike rate so far
EDIT - I was gonna fix the spelling in my first sentence, but it accurately sums up how I am talking afdter only a few beers, and right now seems very funny.

 

[Vlad the Pale Aler]

I have one stubby left from a brett experiment 18 months ago.
I added the 2 Orval dregs to an underattenuated trippel at bottling and left it alone, first taste was at 8 months and the most recent at Kooks the other day. It was rather good, and an easy way to achieve a wild beer.
I have done a similar thing to a Solara type ale recently. Half a keg of twangy Koelsch with a top up of fresh APA wort at half gravity, then the Orval trick.
Time will tell.

 

[newguy]

I tried making a Flanders Brown this past fall, which was a first for me. I didn't want to sour an entire batch so I did things a little differently.

I had maybe 5 litres of a previous Dubbel left over. This was an odd batch. I do 10 gallon batches and one of my carboys finished at 1.018, and the other stalled at 1.030. Nothing I did could get it to attenuate. The stalled keg was way too sweet to drink, so I poured what remained of it into a pot and dunked my drip tray into it. My drip tray hadn't been washed for quite some time and was covered in thick viscous goopy pseudo-beer. This mystery matter was a good breeding ground for bacteria. It smelled like some of the sour beers I've tried over the years, so I thought 'what the hell.'

Over the next couple of weeks, this mixture in the covered pot started to develop a nice funky sour aroma but the taste wasn't really sour. The gravity fell to 1.005, and it still wasn't too sour. So I added two cups of honey. THAT did the trick! It got VERY sour after that.

I pasteurized it (heated to 80C & held 20 minutes), then blended it with a Belgian Dark Strong that I had freshly brewed. I've never been to Belgium, but a member of my club has and he said it tasted exactly like the Flanders Browns that he had in Belgium.

 

[brendanos]

So that's why that tripel tasted odd!!


Other than a Flanders red, a brown, and a lambics or two, I'm considering what else I can think up in terms of wild beers, as the cooler months roll in.

I'm thinking of a a hoppy belgian golden ale, something along the lines of...

70% Pilsener
7% Vienna
4% Raw Wheat
4% Light Munich
15% Dextrose

OG 1.060
~60IBU

Bittered with Sauvin and Simcoe
Flavoured with Sauvin, Simcoe and Styrian Goldings
Finished with Styrian Goldings and Saaz B

Primary with 1214 (Belgian Ale)
Secondary with lambic blend or any of the single strains.


Hopefully a beer that will be good both fresh and old.

 

[Kai]

I've got one fermenting at the moment, and the only real advice I have to offer is to use a neutral strain in primary. I pitched roselare directly, and it took a very long time to initially ferment out, with some stalling along the way. Next time I will ferment out with 1056 and add roselare in secondary.

Oh, and be patient

Recipe is here.

I dimly remember tasting this last weekend and even recall some sourness. I thought the wyeast blends generally included an ale strain for primary fermentation, but my initial impulse for a beer like this would definitely be to use a separate strain for fermentation. 1056, or any ale strain of euro origin (belg incl) would be my preference.

I've never brewed any sour beers before, at least not intentionally. However, if I was going to start exploring the field then I would start off very simple Complex multi-strain ferments can wait, to begin with all a sour beer needs to be is a beer that relies on acidity to balance the malt sweetness rather than bitterness. All that as to be is a beer balanced with acid rather than with bitterness. I'd use that as a foundation for working my way up to more complicated things.

 

[Trent]

Did anybody else pick up on Newguys comment?
Mark, that has to be one of the most daring and experimental ways to sour a beer I have heard of! I love it. And the fact that you added some honey to make it sour enough for you is just classic. Full points to you, mate, cant get any crazier than that! Makes me look like a bit of a wuss by wanting to use bret or other cultures :lol:
All the best
Trent

 

[warrenlw63]

Did anybody else pick up on Newguys comment?
Mark, that has to be one of the most daring and experimental ways to sour a beer I have heard of! I love it. And the fact that you added some honey to make it sour enough for you is just classic. Full points to you, mate, cant get any crazier than that! Makes me look like a bit of a wuss by wanting to use bret or other cultures :lol:
All the best
Trent

:lol: :lol: I was waiting for somebody to bite there Trent.

I've looked at the snotty dregs in my drip tray. I doubt I'd do similar things. I've seen earwigs crawling in there on at least one occasion.

Newguy is crazy. :wacko:

Warren -

 

[newguy]

I've looked at the snotty dregs in my drip tray. I doubt I'd do similar things. I've seen earwigs crawling in there on at least one occasion.

Newguy is crazy.

:lol:

I'll admit it, I am crazy. :lol:

I had fruit flies in my drip tray last summer, but they were long gone by the time I got around to souring that beer. My take on the whole thing is that since the end result was pasteurized, it's okay. Probably okay........Alright, I hope it's okay.

I got pretty much the same reaction from my club mates when they heard the story of how I soured that beer. One or two said it was 'cool', and the rest thought I was nuts. Good thing I gave them the details of my procedure after they had a taste. Sort of like how my Mom used to tell visitors that what they just ate for supper was deer, not beef. She learned early in Dad's hunting 'career' never to tell anyone before they ate it. :lol:

 

[Thirsty Boy]

I'm with bconnery,

Been looking for alternate ways to "sour" a beer that dont involve weird bugs or the dunking of driptrays (I vote cool on that one)

I have experimented a few times with Pomegranate molasses and the results have been promising. Nothing I would call good just yet, but the flavours definately work in beer.

I have only tried blending it with lighter coloured beers so far and the molasses flavour starts to interfere before the sourness gets high enough, but I'm going to try it out with the old ale and dubbel I have in the pipeline. The molasss flavours should work in with them a lot better.

I also have a block of tamarind sitting in my cupboard and that gear HAS to have possibilites.

Also, has anyone tried making a sour beer using just a sourmash at the beggining of the process rather than a long sour fermentation at the end??

Thirsty

 

[Stuster]

ThirstyBoy

have a look at this thread started by the mighty Weizen brewer Les (who will hopefully poke his mighty nose into this thread at some point ).

 

[KoNG]

My drip tray hadn't been washed for quite some time and was covered in thick viscous goopy pseudo-beer. This mystery matter was a good breeding ground for bacteria. It smelled like some of the sour beers I've tried over the years, so I thought 'what the hell.'

:blink: shoulda whipped your jocks off and dunked them too....

I've got a brew at the moment which was fermented on the cake of dried windsor yeast. To say the least, this beer has some weird flavours and aroma going on, wheat yeast like, phenolic and peppery which i wasnt expecting in my english bitter. (Funnily enough i was chatting to T.D. and he has just brewed a beer which he chucked onto the cake of a previous 'windsor' fermented beer and he has acheived the exact same results, with his beer close to tipping down the drain.. )

So i might venture into a world of Orval dregs and see what comes of it.....

 

[warrenlw63]

:blink: shoulda whipped your jocks off and dunked them too....

Kong... the Chocolate Porter thread is next week I believe. h34r:

Warren -

 

[KoNG]

sour browns this week..........