Any point cleaning a keg that's going to be refilled straight away

[manticle]

why do commercial brewers pay so much attention to it?? they've got a lot more beer to dump, a lot of people ready to sue them, a consistency record on the line, and they've got a far more sterile environment to do stuff in. (which also explains why their beer tastes sterile

Not all commercially available beer tastes sterile. Would have presumed beer nerds would be more aware of that than anyone else.

 

[MHB]

If you want a really good reason to clean and sterilise between fills, other than those offered above: -
Beer is nor sterile, not only does it have yeast in it but there never was a home brew made that just contained yeast.
There are both Aerobic and Anaerobic bacteria that will contaminate beer.
During the time the first beer was in the keg some of the (admittedly - hopefully small) population of bad Anaerobes will grow.
If you don't clean and sterilise between fills there will be a much larger "seed" population of beer spoiling organisms in your second keg, the chances of getting a sour keg the second, third... time would go up logarithmically until it approaches a certainty.

Not to mention the problems with lines that have even more of a potential for infection than kegs and should be cleaned when you do the keg!

Clean everything all the time
Mark

 

[DU99]

when do your beer lines get a clean...i clean the keg with hot water and sodium perc flush some thru my beer lines leave for a short time,then empty the keg out then put in about 10 litres with water/starsan run thru beer lines.wait awhile then disconnect the lines from keg,tip keg upside down leave for a few min's,then empty.then put on fresh keg and pull about 500ml of liquid thru line.ready to go.. starsan is a contact sanitizer only needs a few minutes...

 

[Fents]

people throw down a cube to ferment on top of a yeast cake, not cleaning the fermenter....best practice? probably not but it gets done plenty.

If i'm scrapped for time i certainly give the keg a quick rinse with hot water to get any yeast / hop floaties out and throw a brew straight in it, no starsan no oxyper. Best practice? probably not.

I also reuse beer glass's from the night before with a quick rinse of hot water if im out of beer glass's aka forgot to press the GO button on the dishwasher. I like to live on the edge.

 

[Feldon]

Best practice also involves avoiding any unnecessary processes.

 

[MHB]

Cleaning/hygiene is not an unnecessary process.
M

 

[pist]

Agree mark. Cleaning/sanitizing is a mandatory process. Skipping it is why some get infection. Ive not had one in the entire time ive been brewing. Its probably THE most important part of brewing

 

[klangers]

Not cleaning (bright) tanks between fills is common practice in commercial breweries, particularly for bright filtered beer.
Saves time on cleaning, conserves CO2 not having to blow down a whole tank, and also energy re-equillibrating several hundred kilos of stainless back to ambient after a hot CIP.

I would like to clarify this.

There are different intensity levels for a CIP. Flavour changes ALWAYS require a clean, but this is usually a rinse/basic clean. Cleaning/sanitising involves longer cleans with more steps.

Bright beer tanks (BBTs) are not always cleaned between fills because they:
a) Are often filled with the exact same brew coming out of maturation/filtration at a different time
b ) The time between BBT fills is hours, not weeks/months like in the keg situation
c) The beer is pasteurised before/after bottling (depending on the arrangement), so combined with point b ), there is not much chance for an infection to take hold

Kegs, on the other hand, are thoroughly washed and steam sanitised before filling, every time.

Personally, I'd be very apprehensive and worried if I did not clean it. 5 mins of my time = peace of mind.

 

[mosto]

I consider myself to be a bit on the lazy side regarding cleaning, but seriously, it takes about 10 min to clean a keg and lines, and you only have to be actually present for about two of those minutes.

 

[pcmfisher]

Apart from the bugs I would like to get rid of the layer of sediment on the bottom of the keg rather than stirring it up with the next batch.
I like the look of clear beer.

 

[danestead]

I can't believe this thread has gone on 3 pages now. Seriously wtf.

 

[sponge]

Don't look at the Bronwyn Bishop thread..

 

[Seeker]

Crikey - I feel like I've been told off by half the forums now!

I feel all dirty myself now :lol:

MHB - that is a fair point and an answer to my question with knowledge and without hearsay - thank you.


Whether it's best practice or not, common forum "wisdom" or not - there is nothing that does not deserve scrutiny and questioning.

That's how we make progress.

Heaping scorn on fair questions is the reserve of head in the sand yes men, scared not to tow the common line.

Just sayin'

 

[Crusty]

Crikey - I feel like I've been told off by half the forums now!

I feel all dirty myself now :lol:

MHB - that is a fair point and an answer to my question with knowledge and without hearsay - thank you.


Whether it's best practice or not, common forum "wisdom" or not - there is nothing that does not deserve scrutiny and questioning.

That's how we make progress.

Heaping scorn on fair questions is the reserve of head in the sand yes men, scared not to tow the common line.

Just sayin'

Well, you did ask for advice & peoples opinions & you certainly got it.
You know yourself that it's bad practice but at the same time seek encouragement from the not so anal or time poor brewers amongst us.
Just fill her up & see how you go. Chances are you'll be fine & you won't have any issues. It's not something I would do & I've been all grain brewing since 2008 with no infections thus far. I won't take short cuts in my brewery, ever!

 

[Seeker]

That's fair enough - the thing with shortcuts is that only practice shows the dangerous from the acceptable.

 

[danestead]

Don't look at the Bronwyn Bishop thread..

Dont worry, I havent. I read this forum for beer related information and it seems cleanliness related stuff also.

 

[manticle]

Crikey - I feel like I've been told off by half the forums now!

I feel all dirty myself now :lol:

MHB - that is a fair point and an answer to my question with knowledge and without hearsay - thank you.


Whether it's best practice or not, common forum "wisdom" or not - there is nothing that does not deserve scrutiny and questioning.

That's how we make progress.

Heaping scorn on fair questions is the reserve of head in the sand yes men, scared not to tow the common line.

Just sayin'

You asked the question, seemingly wanting a blessing for doing something you know is lazy (or not doing something because you're lazy).
No pats on the head for you, hardly makes anyone else a yes man or you a groundbreaking revolutionary.

Should I clean this when it's dirty?
Yes
But why?
Cos it's dirty
But what if?
Just clean it.
But why?
Cos it's dirty.

Not sure how complicated a brewing science type answer you really needed to the question.

 

[Seeker]

Not sure why you think I'm interested in anyone's blessiings.

Mhb gave me a good reason, no one else did.

saying it's because it's dirty explains nothing.

Anyway let's move on to something more interesting. Wasn't meaning to have pointless row.

 

[manticle]

If you have a look at some of the earlier posts, you'll see I did in fact suggest beer contains microbes and is a target for others.

If you don't want a row, don't suggest people who answer your quite silly question about lazy practice are uninformed yes men or that you are a revolutionary sceptic.

It's dirty explains enough for you to be able to find out for yourself why dirty is bad (as if you didn't already know).
The row, if you call it that is not just for your benefit - it's for anyone curious about whether corner cutting is a good idea. Just think of all the kegs that could have been cleaned while you started and posted in this thread.

Not quite sure what you expected but I supect you knew the answers when you posted.

 

[pist]

Im pretty sure most others in this thread DID answer the question and the general consensus was you could end up with infected beer. Why continue to provoke argument? Go right ahead and do what you like your obviously not going to listen anyway