Wild Yeast Problems - How you overcame

[Pogierob]

Clint..
Do you all grain or kit?

 

[manticle]

The art of reading has been lost. 1st post says '15L biab'.

 

[Pogierob]

Fair enough Manticle,.

Clint,

my suggestion would be this.

buy a new fermenter.
buy a new mash paddle or stirring spoon
buy a cheap coopers can and a brew sugar

follow the instructions on the tin exactly, don't add hops for flavour, don't do anything other than add water, tin and fermentible to the fermenter and pitch the kit yeast.

let it ferment on the bench NOT in your fermenting chamber.

Don't use any equipment you have previously used


This may end up a useless exercise, but if you end up with a NON infected beer, then do the same but change ONE thing..

for example - put it in the fermenting fridge...

step it up ONE move at a time until you find the infection source.

If as you say, the infection is evident within 24 hours of fermentation then this is a fast way of moving through the possible suspects without going through the heart break of BIAB loss.

Edit.
If you still have the infection then I you have my sympathy

 

[Mickcr250]

Have you thought about trying to starve them out of your brewery? You say you have brewed every week since the problem started and I'm not sure but I would say with every infection the numbers of wild yeast in your brewery will grow. Maybe take a month off and let the viability drop

 

[clintonforster]

Fair enough Manticle,.

Clint,

my suggestion would be this.

buy a new fermenter.
buy a new mash paddle or stirring spoon
buy a cheap coopers can and a brew sugar

follow the instructions on the tin exactly, don't add hops for flavour, don't do anything other than add water, tin and fermentible to the fermenter and pitch the kit yeast.

let it ferment on the bench NOT in your fermenting chamber.

Don't use any equipment you have previously used


This may end up a useless exercise, but if you end up with a NON infected beer, then do the same but change ONE thing..

for example - put it in the fermenting fridge...

step it up ONE move at a time until you find the infection source.

If as you say, the infection is evident within 24 hours of fermentation then this is a fast way of moving through the possible suspects without going through the heart break of BIAB loss.

Edit.
If you still have the infection then I you have my sympathy

Hey Mate i really appreciate the help but i have brewed at other mates houses and then fermented at home and have tried in 4 different fridges and 3 different spots in the house. :/

A couple guys have suggested nuking my equipment with 90% water, 5% bleach 5% vinegar, but i fail to see how this will stop it when i've gotten new equipment almost 7 times.

Even brewing at another house, cubing taking it home, cleaning my brand new brew bucket with tricleanium and then passivating with star san and then fermenting in the brewbucket in a brand new chest freezer in a different room didn't help.

 

[clintonforster]

Have you thought about trying to starve them out of your brewery? You say you have brewed every week since the problem started and I'm not sure but I would say with every infection the numbers of wild yeast in your brewery will grow. Maybe take a month off and let the viability drop

Yeah i've had a few guys tell me that they brewed and fermented at a mates place for 6 months and then started brewing at their place again and the problem was gone. I actually went to a brew club meeting last night and got a few guys to give it a sniff and taste. One guy who's actually the guy who's house i brewed at said he got that exact same smell with 3 different recipes in a row when he brewed in a room in his house, he then moved all his stuff to his basement and has since not had the problem.

 

[Pogierob]

I guess the point of the exercise was to remove YOU from the equation.
It is may likely a wild yeast but you are still a major part of the process.
Might be worth a try for $20.

 

[manticle]

Hey Mate i really appreciate the help but i have brewed at other mates houses and then fermented at home and have tried in 4 different fridges and 3 different spots in the house. :/

A couple guys have suggested nuking my equipment with 90% water, 5% bleach 5% vinegar, but i fail to see how this will stop it when i've gotten new equipment almost 7 times.

Even brewing at another house, cubing taking it home, cleaning my brand new brew bucket with tricleanium and then passivating with star san and then fermenting in the brewbucket in a brand new chest freezer in a different room didn't help.

Try it anyway. It's like looking in the fridge when you can't find your keys.

 

[Matplat]

If you can complete the entire process (from grain to a cold beer) at a mates place successfully, rather than cubing and bringing home, then you know the problem is with the location.

It seems like you have eliminated any part of your process/equipment being the problem.

Matt

 

[clintonforster]

If you can complete the entire process (from grain to a cold beer) at a mates place successfully, rather than cubing and bringing home, then you know the problem is with the location.

It seems like you have eliminated any part of your process/equipment being the problem.

Matt

We did a double batch at my mates place, his turned out great and mine turned out drab at my place and if anything he's way more relaxed on the cleaning and sanitizing than me. so i agree i've definitely ruled out equipment and process. I get that brewing is a very forgiving process from the fact that when i started i was really lax with cleaning and sanitising and stuffed alot of things up and all my beers turned out amazing. It's definitely my house. Unfortunately the only other place i can think of to ferment is my mates place, but being in inner melbourne it's not very big and his mrs isn't keen on it.

 

[Pogierob]

Have you considered sabotage? Have you upset anyone in the house?
The are two commons to this problem
Location.
Brewer.
If you are convinced it's location then you have to hit it with every thing you have. 5 times in a row, have a beer and hit it another 5 times. floors, walls, ceiling and all surfaces under and over.
Then wait a week, do it again.
Then consider brewing, but not in between.

 

[Leviathan]

Maybe run an air purifier in the immediate brewing area, id be checking your air con filter too, being summer i presume its been cranking.

 

[panzerd18]

How long can spores survive?

 

[mckenry]

Sorry if you have tried this, but I dont think you have. I'm speed reading (sneakily at work)

Can you brew and cube, then ferment at your mates place, without any of your fridges, brewbuckets or fermenter?

At least this will let you know if its a hot side or cold side problem. If its **** there, then its in your urn/brewery. If its a good beer, youre left with fermentation. At least 50% of the source can be eliminated.

 

[TimT]

I'll be interested how the 'leave wort out as a test to see if it's just hanging around your house' test goes.

After chatting with Clinton last night about this problem it sounds more and more puzzling. Apparently at first it just looks like a normal fermentation with a healthy krausen, and it's only to the tail end of fermentation that problems become apparent: the wort remains cloudy and has an off smell and flavour. (Come to think of it I wonder if it was a version of this infection that got into one of my case swap beers, making it cloudy and preventing it from having a secondary fermentation - I suspect that infection was bacterial).

This to me suggests a very odd type of microbial infection - perhaps a yeast (or bacteria) that that lives off other yeasts? Or that thrives in the conditions created by a yeast fermentation, eg, likes to eat alcohol. Anyway, the 'bowl of fresh wort' test might help. I suppose you could also leave a bowl of freshly-fermented ale, preferably a mate's homebrew, out (with a plastic covering to deter insects) and see what that results in.

If the fresh wort catches the bad infection, we'll have some indication that my theory is wrong (wouldn't be the first time). If it doesn't, but the bowl of fermented ale catches the bad infection, perhaps we could start treating it as a killer yeast, or an infection attracted to the products of yeast fermentation. In this second case, the suggestion that you stop brewing for a period (ie, stop feeding the beast) seems to make some sense.

The second thing that struck me is the description of Clinton's backyard where he's been brewing - bare concrete. This set me wondering again about my pet theory that maybe such infections tend to arise in situations where natural yeasts have been got rid of, so there is no competition for a strong adaptable yeast that floats by (the microbial equivalent of an invasive weed, I suppose). An easy way to introduce some natural competition might be to get some pot plants, especially those that flower and fruit frequently - that way you'll attract not only natural yeasts, but insects who will, in turn, spread more yeast about. And of course you could cultivate a sourdough culture, for the same reason.

Could be wrong. But first step is to see what the 'fresh wort' test and 'freshly fermented ale' tests result in.

 

[Nizmoose]

Looks like you've got this nailed down to your house. I'd be researching (you probably already have) what to clean a whole house with and what measures to take to maintain a wild yeast 'free' environment. As others have said I'd go over the whole house, not brew for a while, go over it again, then throw together a kit beer.

 

[Pogierob]

Just a thought, I'm assuming you are using temp control. Have you calibrated your temp control?

Just wondering if your (STC-1000) as an example isn't out and you are fermenting at a much higher temp than desired for the yeast?

Sorry for the 101 questions, I just feel for you and your dilemma.

 

[stux]

Still haven't detailed *how* you are sanitizing...

 

[Markbeer]

If it is your house why don't you split a batch into 6 small ones and ferment in various locations.

I would be surprised if all became infected.

You would use dry yeast and pitch equally. This may give an indicator as to the source. Ie 1 bad and 2 not so bad and 3 fine.

 

[Dazzbrew]

Maybe run an air purifier in the immediate brewing area, id be checking your air con filter too, being summer i presume its been cranking.

I also wondered about one of the portable air purifiers, and if they would filter fine enough?