Warning To No Chillers

[mje1980]

1.6ml bleach + 1.6ml vinegar in a litre of water. ***** up nasties good n proper.

 

[Dazza88]

with what nick just described makes me think using the aforementioned jerry for no chill, with attention to cleaning and sanitising, it should be fine.

 

[WarmBeer]

1.6ml bleach + 1.6ml vinegar in a litre of water. ***** up nasties good n proper.

Please, never casually mention aciduated bleach cleaning without giving the proper, detailed, instructions for how to process it.

Always, always, add the bleach to the water (this is just good lab practice), THEN, once those 2 are mixed, add the vinegar to drop the pH.

Adding vinegar to undiluted bleach will give off gas that will f*ck you up.

 

[Ross]

Sorry but whats nochill got to do with it? U opened a container with wort, it got infected. U recon it wouldnt have got infected if it was chilled before u cubed it?

Now as fir ur cube, clean it properly and its fine. Would u throw a fermentor out after an infection?. Bleech, pbw, starsan and its fine

+1. Just give the cube a clean & sanitise, it'll be fine.

cheers Ross

 

[S.E]

1.6ml bleach + 1.6ml vinegar in a litre of water. ***** up nasties good n proper.

Another option is use a couple of litres hot caustic to clean the cube. Cleans the cube and dissolves the nasties at the same time. I usually slosh a little iodophor around before I refill and have never had any problems.

 

[Florian]

Slightly :icon_offtopic: , but while we're talking about cleaning products:

I thought l'd be smart by covering my daughters cherry juice stained shirt in pure sodium per carbonate, roll it up and dump it in water for two days.

Well, here's the result:



If she was a teenager I guess there would be a chance she'd wear it, fortunately she is only two and a half.

 

[JaseH]

Slosh a bit of metho on it, set a match to it, then go buy a plate chiller

 

[the_new_darren]

+1. Just give the cube a clean & sanitise, it'll be fine.

cheers Ross

That has to have been the most irresponsible load of frogshit I have ever seen come from your key board.

By your advice all laboratories in the world would simply employ "a quick clean and sanitise" rather than discarding or autoclaving contaminated equipment.

I hear the ******** that the "canning" process, pasteurisation etc is all that is needed and I ask "why do laboratories use an autoclave at 121 C and a couple of atmospheres of pressure for sterilisation. Perhaps its because many bacteria are not killed at boiling?"

Perhaps Ross should do some research by typing BIOFILM into google and see how well his suggestion for cleaning/sanitising a previously infected cube will work. I suspect he is just trying to peddle more "sanitiser" without a care for the advice he has given

Cubes are cheaper than dumped beer. If your cube has been infected, dump it including your taps and transfer lines.

tnd

 

[sim]

+1. Just give the cube a clean & sanitise, it'll be fine.

cheers Ross

That has to have been the most irresponsible load of frogshit I have ever seen come from your key board.

By your advice all laboratories in the world would simply employ "a quick clean and sanitise" rather than discarding or autoclaving contaminated equipment.

Cubes are cheaper than dumped beer. If your cube has been infected, dump it including your taps and transfer lines.

mate i think the overall setiment of "it'll be fine" in this instance is sound enough advise. We're not acheiving laboratory sterilization when we do our 60min boil either but ..."it'll be fine". In some instances dumping the cube and fittings is good advise also, but heck theres enough plastic going down the drain already.

 

[manticle]

I actually agree with Darren, at least to an extent.

I've had infections in cubes, sanitised the bejesus out of them, no chilled in them and got the same infection rear its ugly head. Had it happen with fermenters too (and starters in plastic bottles). Personally, I chuck my recyclable container in the recycling and buy a new one - not because I'm made of money (far from), not because I don't care about the environment (I do) but because I have experienced recurring infections by assuming clean and sanitise will be fine.

Everyone else's experience may vary of course - that's just mine.

 

[sim]

yeah i tended to do kinda similar untill the paranoia drove me mad and i threw my cubes out permenantly, and chilled. Just noticing alot of "meh, chuck it" kinda sentiment bandying about, and i want to point out if you threw out every offending scrap of your brewery anytime you get a whiff of frogshit in your brew that would amount to a lot of plastic waste.

:icon_offtopic: For the sake of everyone doing their bit and recycling, the plastic being recylcled doesnt just get turned back into what it was. The grade of plastic its turned into at best is not ripe with usefullness AFAIK.

 

[manticle]

Very little about my brewing is 'meh' (although a lot of it is 'I'm not quite sure')

 

[the_new_darren]

Sim,
Im not saying you need an autoclave for homebrewing but simply that there are plenty of micro-organisms that can survive 100 C and hence an autoclave runs at 121 C for liquid and 130+ for solids.

If HB sanitisers were half as effective as "sprouted" then Im sure that hospitals and laboratories would move to a simple wash and sanitise methodology.

Now, if you have a porous plastic container with a previous infection, unless you clean and THEN autoclave you will see the same infection come back time and time again. This HAS been proven everyday in microbiological laboratories.

Here is some reading for you as a starting place.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biofilm

cheers

tnd

 

[bradsbrew]

I actually agree with Darren, at least to an extent.

I've had infections in cubes, sanitised the bejesus out of them, no chilled in them and got the same infection rear its ugly head. Had it happen with fermenters too (and starters in plastic bottles). Personally, I chuck my recyclable container in the recycling and buy a new one - not because I'm made of money (far from), not because I don't care about the environment (I do) but because I have experienced recurring infections by assuming clean and sanitise will be fine.

Everyone else's experience may vary of course - that's just mine.

yeah but dont you also ferment in your cubes?

Due to laziness I have in the past left a cube sit for a week or so after tipping the contents into fermenter. They can get pretty manky and furry inside. I good few rinses then a couple of cleans with 100% sod perc followed by a few more boiling water rinses and the cubes still going strong. I have never had an infection from the cube on the couple of times I have got infections it from yeast issues post cube.

Cheers

 

[Nick JD]

why do laboratories use an autoclave at 121 C

Why don't laboratories make beer?

Is it because they are not breweries?

Why do breweries not autoclave everything?

Is it because they are not laboratories? That sterility isn't necessary when you pitch 100,000,000,000 yeast cells and then ask them to multiply?

Would I reuse a cube that had become infected? No. I don't cube wort. Mad idea. The benefits are not outweighed by the problems. This thread (and the countless others) are testament to this.

I like to put the yeast in when it's at room temp and not much after. If I could use a brand new cube every time I'd consider it.

 

[manticle]

Genuine question: besides the dreaded CB, how many other micro-organisms can survive 100 deg C and how many of them can live in wort?

I say genuine question and I mean it - as stated above I have had infection recur in sanitised, heat pastuerised NC cubes although some of those may have been due to leaky cubes. Have had it happen in previously infected plastic fermenters too though, which while not heat treated, were chemically cleaned, rinsed and sanitised.

 

[bradsbrew]

+1. Just give the cube a clean & sanitise, it'll be fine.

cheers Ross

Sim,
Im not saying you need an autoclave for homebrewing but simply that there are plenty of micro-organisms that can survive 100 C and hence an autoclave runs at 121 C for liquid and 130+ for solids.

If HB sanitisers were half as effective as "sprouted" then Im sure that hospitals and laboratories would move to a simple wash and sanitise methodology.

Now, if you have a porous plastic container with a previous infection, unless you clean and THEN autoclave you will see the same infection come back time and time again. This HAS been proven everyday in microbiological laboratories.

Here is some reading for you as a starting place.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biofilm

cheers

tnd

You seem to be hung up on the sanitising part of Ross' comment, I think you missed the point about cleaning which was mentioned before sanitising. In the OP situation would not cleaning be more important than the saniting that follows? And before you get your back up the question mark means I am asking you a question not questioning your info.

Cheers

 

[manticle]

yeah but dont you also ferment in your cubes?

Due to laziness I have in the past left a cube sit for a week or so after tipping the contents into fermenter. They can get pretty manky and furry inside. I good few rinses then a couple of cleans with 100% sod perc followed by a few more boiling water rinses and the cubes still going strong. I have never had an infection from the cube on the couple of times I have got infections it from yeast issues post cube.

Cheers

I do ferment in my cube. I'm not sure of the relevance though. I'm saying stuff that's made my beer taste horrible has recurred when I've used the same equipment later, despite a decent cleaning and sanitising regime.

When I ferment in my cube (which I started doing to reduce infection risk solely due to recurring infection) I generally get good tasting beer so if any of the microflora that make my beer taste good want to hang about I don't mind.

Fermenting in a cube is the same deal as fermenting in a fermenter - HDPE container.

I may have missed something.

 

[jlm]

Why don't laboratories make beer?

Is it because they are not breweries?

Why do breweries not autoclave everything?

Is it because they are not laboratories?

Would I reuse a cube that had become infected? No. I don't cube wort. Mad idea.

Plus one. Well, except for the cubing thing. If there were a formula for calculating Darren's response time in a thread about NC'ing that Ross posted in, I'd say that was a pretty slow attempted poopfight from TND compared to the expected outcome.

Edit. Cannot spell "to" correctly after "too" many beers.

 

[Ross]

The guy's opened his cube & let some airbourne yeast fire up his cube, IMO there is little reason to throw it out when a good clean & sanitise should be all that's required.

Gotta laugh at you TND, if I'd advised throwing it out & buying a new cube, you'd of no doubt gone the opposite opinion & accused me of bullshitting & trying to sell more cubes Your personal attacks have become more than tedious...

Cheers Ross