VIC-Xmas 2016 Case-Swap Recipe (Cocko's place)

[TheWiggman]

Yeast cake repitches are the worst, just spent half the morning cleaning the fridge after pitching on a 1728 cake with a 1.066 stout. That's AFTER cleaning up a huge mess with the airlock then setting up a blowoff tube into a bottle. The bottle overflowed and overall I've lost 1.5 litres in blowoff. Awesome way to spend a day off work. So I'm backing you're in trouble DJ.

 

[WarmerBeer]

So are people generally following the Candisyrup.com recipe and pitching this at 25 C? Then letting it self ramp?

A bunch of other recipes on the interwebs (yeah, yeah...) are claiming to pitch at 18 and ramp up to 25 over the course of a couple of days.

Have got some fermenter space, so feeling it is nigh time to get it going on.

 

[technobabble66]

WB, yeah that's what i got kinda confused during my fermentation.
I'd read all those other interwebs recipes (the huge one on HBT by Bottoms Up is basically the only one i'd bother with, any other decent one is generally quoting that post), and it's why i initially let mine drop to 19-20°C (from pitching at 25°C) for the first 3-4 days, before i realised the CSI recipe says to start at 25°C. Also, i think Bottoms Up recommends holding at 18°C for a while before ramping, whereas CSI holds at 25°C, then drop to ~14°C to finish off (which is a pretty bizarre ferm temp schedule).
OTOH, the CSI recipe is supposedly tested and refined over a few/lots of iterations; so i'd put a lot of faith in that, and is the main reason i went with that recipe for this Case Swap.

Mine is far too young in the bottle to really tell, so i'm largely just referencing theory that i'm guessing you're already familiar with: the lower the temp, the more subtle the esters/phenolics. But that result varies enormously from strain to strain, so the theory doesn't provide a great guide for the ideal ferm temp schedule for this. Mine is definitely quite subtle on the aromatics, so i'd guess it might've been better to ferment mine a little higher. I'm also not 100% sure how these aromatics develop over time. I suspect these type of aromatics (Belgian esters, i believe) actually improve and shine more over time, as opposed to fading over time like other (Belgian) phenolics or hops oils/aromatics.
One other detail: even at 18°C, my WLP-530 was juuuuuust pushing on the glad wrap, so filled ~8L headspace. For this, i was grateful i'd dropped it to 18°C.


I'd suggest to see if you can find any particular detail on the effect of high & low ferm temps on the ester profile of the WLP-530 (i assume you're using this?) as an added guide.
Failing that, i'd possibly go for ~21-22°C for the first day or 3 of active fermentation (partly depends on how fast it attenuates, so maybe ~25-40% chewed through), then let it rise a degree or so each day thereafter. Just a suggestion though

 

[TheWiggman]

With all this banter I decided to crack open bottle #1 tonight:

Plenty of carb, exactly where I wanted it with a spritzy held-holding liveliness. Luscious. Is this 13%? Tastes smooth, not silky yet but absolutely drinkable and if I cracked this at a craft brewery I'd be raving. It's got a bit of 3787 on the nose and taste but gets lost in an unmistakable 'smoke' character. Wow is it dry, I noticed it then recalled the low FG. Probably the only letdown. Oh mama in a year's time this will be the real deal. This is what home brewing is all about.

 

[MartinOC]

This is what home brewing is all about.

Yo mamma!

Put some (a lot!) away & remember it slowly as it evolves, matures, ages & then passes over the next 3-10 years.

Keep it cool (literally & figuratively) whilst sampling..

 

[WarmerBeer]

Mine is far too young in the bottle to really tell, so i'm largely just referencing theory that i'm guessing you're already familiar with: the lower the temp, the more subtle the esters/phenolics. But that result varies enormously from strain to strain, so the theory doesn't provide a great guide for the ideal ferm temp schedule for this. Mine is definitely quite subtle on the aromatics, so i'd guess it might've been better to ferment mine a little higher. I'm also not 100% sure how these aromatics develop over time. I suspect these type of aromatics (Belgian esters, i believe) actually improve and shine more over time, as opposed to fading over time like other (Belgian) phenolics or hops oils/aromatics.
One other detail: even at 18°C, my WLP-530 was juuuuuust pushing on the glad wrap, so filled ~8L headspace. For this, i was grateful i'd dropped it to 18°C.


I'd suggest to see if you can find any particular detail on the effect of high & low ferm temps on the ester profile of the WLP-530 (i assume you're using this?) as an added guide.
Failing that, i'd possibly go for ~21-22°C for the first day or 3 of active fermentation (partly depends on how fast it attenuates, so maybe ~25-40% chewed through), then let it rise a degree or so each day thereafter. Just a suggestion though

Good to know, TB.

I think I might wait a little longer. The SS brew buckets are fantastic for cleanup, but there aint a lot of headspace when pitching a whole 23lt cube.

In the meantime, I might do a little more research on the fermentation temperature schedules, and see how it throws esters.

I actually do have a control bottle of real Westy XII that I will be able to compare it to. However, I'm planning on saving it for my next "round-numbered" birthday.

 

[manticle]

My one and only experience of wxii is that it was flavoursome but very smooth and very delicate.

Will check bb date tomorrow if I remember.

 

[MartinOC]

I actually do have a control bottle of real Westy XII that I will be able to compare it to. However, I'm planning on saving it for my next "round-numbered" birthday.

PARTAY at WB's place next Saturday night :chug:

Bring streamers & your best singing voice :blink:

 

[manticle]

I expect one bottle to go a long way.







WB's guard dogs are the best kind of doberman.

 

[Mardoo]

PARTAY at WB's place next Saturday night :chug:

Bring pasties & your best g-string :blink:

FTFY

 

[manticle]

I'll be back tomorrow night

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Day #4, Temp rose to ~21C from 19C but has stabilised and still active fermentation although it has slowed right down. Will slowly increase 0.3-0.5C per day until I hit 24C from now on.

Brew gods looking down on me the other night as I escaped an awful mess (although a good 1L of yeast spewed out of the blow off). Have replaced with a fresh flask and will now harvest the remainder of yeast I get out. Hydro sample from last night which has turned into a fast ferment test (had to dump out of chronical dump valve due to the sample valve being blocked by cube hops - will blast some CO2 in reverse direction tonight to hopefully unblock), which is now at 1.018. Currently boiling ~1.5kg of dark candi syrup for 15 mins before cooling and dumping into FV tonight. Think I am doing this just in time (plan was last night but didn't check gravity because of above reasons/stress/time lost).

Will keep chugging along! Excited! This is fermenting so fast.

 

[mofox1]

Good work on keeping the temp down... I think my fridge was running constantly to keep it below 23.

 

[Ferg]

Just a heads up for anyone in Melbourne who wants to try the real thing - Winedown in Carnegie have it along with the 8 & Blonde but be prepared to hand over $40 for the privilege. No affiliation etc.

Also, just for the drool factor, my brothers (who live in Ireland) recently went to Belgium for a beer holiday and came back with this among others:

 

[MartinOC]

Is **** actually allowed on AHB?

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Wlp530 really did slow down and surprisingly didn't speed up when I added the candi sugar, just chugged away at same rate for another week.

Bottled this on the weekend and the yeast sediment looks like some of the candi syrup has worked its way in, didn't smell like it and it could have just "stained" the yeast perhaps? What are the thoughts on whether this mixes in from the yeast activity or not? I followed instruction to boil in 1/2 syrup volume of water for 15mins then cool and tipped into fermenter, I didn't stir.

 

[technobabble66]

Hard to tell, given the beer looks a similar color to the D2.
I did the same but gently stirred after adding. Definitely none left in the cake at the end. Even if you didn't stir, it should still been ok for the yeast to do its thing.

Just got to wait 12 months now...

 

[WarmerBeer]

Well, I finally pulled my lazy finger out, de-cubed my wort, and pitched the slurry from a 5 lt starter of WLP 530. It started fermenting strongly within 12 hours.

I got a fair whiff of what to me smelled of "decomposed vegetable matter" left in the cube afterwards. I'm now beginning to wonder if it's possible that all that vegetal hop matter had started to rot, even without access to oxygen?

The cube had not swelled at all, and other than that, everything looked fine.

Is it possible for hops to have rotted a little during the 6 months I've left them in the cube, even though they're effectively sealed?

 

[technobabble66]

Nope.
Unless there's an infection, in which case: Yes.

Any sign of infection? Like goopiness etc?
Sitting in the cube for so long might impart a little more vegetal note (which mainly should come out during fermentation). Otherwise the Dr Rudi used in bittering might've imparted a slightly "different" note to a regular Belgian (though I think that's stretching it a little).

Fwiw, my second cube (a 10L cube filled at the end) had a weird goopiness to it and what seemed like some protein filaments/film in it. Smelled a bit odd. Maybe could be described as a slightly rotting vegetable. Also no sign of swelling.
However, I'd assumed it was because I'd grabbed the wrong cube out of my boot in the cubing frenzy, and the goop was there *before* I filled it (ie: the hot wort killed whatever it was and did the usual self sterilizing thing). Worth noting that the fermentation showed no further sign of infection & the dubbel I converted this to seems ~fine 5 months later.

 

[micbrew]

well started to ferment my westy ...spun up some WLP 500 Monastery yeast . divided and pitched @19
let sit for a week , then cooked up a tub of candy ..may have pushed it to far .. a little burnt perhaps
anyhooo this morning currently sitting at 1.020 looking rather clean ....I have added more candy

q1 question should up the temperature or keep steady as I said sitting @ 1.020


thanks Micbrew