Abird89
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Definitely useful when I’ve been cleaning it. Don’t have to worry about the cable dragging around. Just have to remember to pull it out prior to filling it up
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Definitely useful when I’ve been cleaning it. Don’t have to worry about the cable dragging around. Just have to remember to pull it out prior to filling it up
There is an inlet filter and also a whirlpool attachment as extras, though the inlet filter could cause more headaches if it got blocked and leaving no way for any grain to get back onto the grain bed.
goatchop41
Well-Known Member
Bollocks. Absolute bollocks.
Wort will come out exactly the same from either. How 'clean' or precise the wort is from either a Guten/RB/GF/Brau vs multi vessel brewing comes down to how well the brewer knows their system, understands their volumes/efficiencies/etc.
Simply saying that that multi vessel brewing is better than single vessel (with absolutely no reasoning or evidence to back it up) is just pure ********
altone
Well-Known Member
I decided on the Guten after seeing both the Robobrew3 and it in person - the build of the Guten looked better to me and as I think I've said before
the programming options seemed to make better sense.
The only thing I dislike about the Guten is that pissy little bazooka - that's going to be replaced very quickly.
My first mods - even before actually using it for a while will be:
Replace bazooka with a helix.
Replace the SS pump return pipe with a "sight tube" eg. silicon tube with measured fluid marks on it so I can see my volumes when the pump is off.
oops edit: And of course make a jacket for it.
The chiller? if I do use one, I'll use my homemade copper one as it fits and has way more surface area than the one supplied with the unit.
I'm not sold on the inlet filter idea - could cause more problems than it solves.
As for the recirc arm/lid issue mentioned before - I don't personally see it as a problem, but if it is - this might fix it
https://www.kegland.com.au/robobrew-gen3-recirculation-pipe-assembly-camlock-upgrade.html
If the switches cause a problem, I'm sure they can be replaced with more robust ones fairly easily.
The whirlpool upgrade... is that the one that requires drilling a hole and rerouting the pump - or is there an off the shelf mod?
If it involves butchering the unit I'll wait and see if I need it.
the programming options seemed to make better sense.
The only thing I dislike about the Guten is that pissy little bazooka - that's going to be replaced very quickly.
My first mods - even before actually using it for a while will be:
Replace bazooka with a helix.
Replace the SS pump return pipe with a "sight tube" eg. silicon tube with measured fluid marks on it so I can see my volumes when the pump is off.
oops edit: And of course make a jacket for it.
The chiller? if I do use one, I'll use my homemade copper one as it fits and has way more surface area than the one supplied with the unit.
I'm not sold on the inlet filter idea - could cause more problems than it solves.
As for the recirc arm/lid issue mentioned before - I don't personally see it as a problem, but if it is - this might fix it
https://www.kegland.com.au/robobrew-gen3-recirculation-pipe-assembly-camlock-upgrade.html
If the switches cause a problem, I'm sure they can be replaced with more robust ones fairly easily.
The whirlpool upgrade... is that the one that requires drilling a hole and rerouting the pump - or is there an off the shelf mod?
If it involves butchering the unit I'll wait and see if I need it.
Last edited:
nathanvonbeerenstein
Well-Known Member
Could you please link me said inlet filter please WEAL?
Had a brew today and had a MUCH better experience than with the RB.
Ran the pump wide open throughout the mash and it drained every bit of it. I did use 250g rice hulls though.
Also just attached the included silicone elbow to get it rotating above the grain bed and have just pooped around a length of tube to whirlpool during my whirlpool steeping.
250gm’s of loose pellet hops for a 23L batch so far and the pump hasn’t even flinched.
Had a brew today and had a MUCH better experience than with the RB.
Ran the pump wide open throughout the mash and it drained every bit of it. I did use 250g rice hulls though.
Also just attached the included silicone elbow to get it rotating above the grain bed and have just pooped around a length of tube to whirlpool during my whirlpool steeping.
250gm’s of loose pellet hops for a 23L batch so far and the pump hasn’t even flinched.
I will post up a pic of the filter tomorrow, in answer to Altone the whirlpool is an off the shelf product, I expect if the demand is there it will be made available.
altone
Well-Known Member
Great! Not sure I'll need it anyway, but do you have a link by any chance?
We have been testing the 50L Guten at the shop now for a week alongside a RB 3 and GF. Good unit but am very concerned by the malt pipe handle. The handle seems too small and has slipped off a few times which I reckon is dangerous. It does not seem to seat well enough. Anyone else had this issue? Also found we needed to insulate to get a rolling boil. Other than that very happy with it after fitting s Helix.
Send an email to Sandy she may have a photo I would be interested to see if there is any alterations to be done.
The pump filter.
I don't mind the return pipe for the Guten but if any mods were going to be made this would be preferable.
Nathan
I have only done one or two brews on my beast so no expert , Anyways if you run the pump to hard and the wort doesnt drain back quick enough to cover the element it will scorch dont ask me how i know this , Also i had a funny taste in my beer a few years ago from useing poxy green hose pipe so be carefull with that , I was very impressed how easy to use this thing is compared to my 3 v system
however the proof will be when i taste the beer
B
nathanvonbeerenstein
Well-Known Member
Appreciate the concern my friend but rest easy, I was running the pump full bore because the grain bed was more than happy draining every bit of it, the fluid level in my overflow pipe never dropped below the mash level, hence why I’m so stoked!
As for the green garden hose, that touches the immersion chiller and the immersion chiller only, all my brewing water comes from the freshest kitchen taps my house has to offer
Another tip is before filling with brewing liquor put some water in take it up to 60 C add some percarbonate or perborate and recirculate for 20 minutes to dislodge any nasties that could be lurking in the pump and recirculating pipe.
Milk-lizard84
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So I'm tossing up between the 2 systems. They seem pretty on par to me performance wise.
I like the slightly extra volume of the guten so it's winning a little.
Just wondering the does the robobrews ability to adjust the malt pipe centre overflow pipe make that much difference?
This seems to be the only thing the guten system doesn't do as well. Does it make much of difference mashing?
I like the slightly extra volume of the guten so it's winning a little.
Just wondering the does the robobrews ability to adjust the malt pipe centre overflow pipe make that much difference?
This seems to be the only thing the guten system doesn't do as well. Does it make much of difference mashing?
TwoCrows
Well-Known Member
I have not allowed any wort to flow down the centre pipe, all the flow is thru the grain bill by throttling the pump flow. I am going to do away with the tube and fit a stainless screw into the bottom screen.
nathanvonbeerenstein
Well-Known Member
People seem to be dismissing the overflow pipe and forgetting what it is intended for: a security measure. It ensures that if your mash happens to get ‘stuck’ and the wort no longer drains through the grain, that the wort being pumped into the top of the mash has somewhere to go and your element won’t be run dry. I’ve had mash’s decide to suddenly stick half way through a mash, as have others, and it’s nice to know that if it ever happens again I won’t come back to a mess or worse. By removing it you gain little and lose a lot imho!
In answer to the original question and having used both, I personally wouldn’t say it’s been an issue for me. The guten’s is technically adjustable to 3 lengths which is sufficient. The adjustability comes at a price with the RB3, it’s overflow pipe is smaller, flimsier and insecure. Others have reported it coming off while stirring the mash and I certainly came close too ! It wobbles around and was pretty hard to adjust once full anyway.
goatchop41
Well-Known Member
I think that a lot of people don't get this. They see all of the pieces and then just screw 'em all together. You do have to have a relatively thick mash if you want to use just the long pipe on an average batch size, but it is perfect for low gravity batches with a normal mash thickness
altone
Well-Known Member
Yes I think the 3 lengths for the centre pipe are sufficient and the fact that the Guten times steps from when it reaches temp
rather from the end of the last step (which the Robo2 did and I think the 3 does too)
made it the choice for me
rather from the end of the last step (which the Robo2 did and I think the 3 does too)
made it the choice for me
For me an improvement would be 4 more little tabs on the malt pipe an 25 to 40 millimeter from the top, just allows more brewing liquor into the mash.
Bought the Robobrew Gen 3 - someone had to. Wouldn’t turn on. Kegland came to the party and sent me a replacement board — no questions asked. The quality is better than the Gen 2. However, the pump return arm is at an odd angle - quality control issue, but no impact on function.
Brewed a 5.5 kg SMaSH. 100 g whirllpool hops straight in the kettle. Did it all manual, other than setting the strike temp to be ready first thing in the morning - very cool. Went off without issue. The temperature reading is more accurate - such that i overshot mash temp, as i was compensating for the 3 degrees the Gen 2 was off. Pumped throughout the mash and with the immersion chiller as i did with Gen 2 - no probs on either machine. No blockages. So all in all, very happy with the first brew on the new machine. Like the simplicity of the false bottom. It will be interseting to see its longevity.
Brewed a 5.5 kg SMaSH. 100 g whirllpool hops straight in the kettle. Did it all manual, other than setting the strike temp to be ready first thing in the morning - very cool. Went off without issue. The temperature reading is more accurate - such that i overshot mash temp, as i was compensating for the 3 degrees the Gen 2 was off. Pumped throughout the mash and with the immersion chiller as i did with Gen 2 - no probs on either machine. No blockages. So all in all, very happy with the first brew on the new machine. Like the simplicity of the false bottom. It will be interseting to see its longevity.
First of all to be honest I haven't read through all 6 pages off this thread and I cant comment on the Guten as I haven't seen one let alone used one. I just wanted to comment on my experience with a recently (3 weeks ish) purchased Robobrew V3 and comment on some of the reported issues other people have had.
My graduations are a little out but much less so than others have said, mine is about 500ml out at 30l.
Others have reported their temp probe is out by up to 5 degrees. Mine is spot on all through the temp range, checked against two reliable thermometers as well as boils at 100 degrees at sea level. Keep in mind temp can vary a lot between the top and bottom of the water level and can develop hot spots near the element. Best solution is to recirculate the water.
My 2c
My graduations are a little out but much less so than others have said, mine is about 500ml out at 30l.
Others have reported their temp probe is out by up to 5 degrees. Mine is spot on all through the temp range, checked against two reliable thermometers as well as boils at 100 degrees at sea level. Keep in mind temp can vary a lot between the top and bottom of the water level and can develop hot spots near the element. Best solution is to recirculate the water.
My 2c
goatchop41
Well-Known Member
This is why it is incorrect when people say not to let anything go down the overflow pipe during the mash. If you have it set at the correct height, it shouldn't be too much higher than the grain bed, so there will still be plenty of water over the element by the time that you get flow through the overflow pipe (and therefore the element won't burn out due to being dry).
Letting flow through the overflow pipe will help keep a much more consistent temp throughout the whole mash. There's a reason why it's recommended on the Grainfather (which, by the way, is the only system of the three existing all-in-ones that actually has a proper, extensive user guide and tutorial videos...so I would happily listen to them)
Another R3 user here and like the vast majority of others, I'm really happy with mine so far. I've run about a dozen batches through mine so far and have hit my numbers every time apart from a recent NEIPA batch where I used too much sparge water (mixed up my numbers with the previous week's brew) - you can't blame the R3 for user stupidity.
My dislikes:
I've never seen, let alone brewed with a Guten, so can't make any comments. A mate has a Grainfather and while his is much nicer overall (as you would expect it to be for the price), both he and I agree the R3 kills it in terms of value for money. He's happy as Larry with his GF and wouldn't change it and I feel the same way about my R3. I'm sure Guten owners would feel the same way about their kits too. Let's face it, both the R3 and Guten are inferior knock offs of the GF. Why get into a pissing contest about which is better? Sure, they both have their shortcomings, but for the price they're just awesome value for money and a provide a great intro into AG brewing. Great times for home brewers.
My dislikes:
- the grain screen was wonky and needed to be straightened, but that was no biggie to fix
- programming a step mash is pretty much guesswork becasue the timer runs straight away, rather than from when the unit hits your target temperature
- the buttons for changing time/temperature feel cheap and making large changes is a PITA
- the R3 provides a no fuss introduction to AG brewing
- value for money is outstanding
- everything you need is included, apart from a paddle to stir the grain
- locally developed product - big tick for me - and KegLand clearly take the time to listen to user feedback and then put that back into future product development.
- easy to take the lid off and sit it on the arm to stir the grain bed throughout the mash
- markings are pretty accurate (30L is a measured 29.6L on mine)
- can program it to have my water sitting at mash in temps as soon as I walk in to my garage on brew day (a big time saver)
I've never seen, let alone brewed with a Guten, so can't make any comments. A mate has a Grainfather and while his is much nicer overall (as you would expect it to be for the price), both he and I agree the R3 kills it in terms of value for money. He's happy as Larry with his GF and wouldn't change it and I feel the same way about my R3. I'm sure Guten owners would feel the same way about their kits too. Let's face it, both the R3 and Guten are inferior knock offs of the GF. Why get into a pissing contest about which is better? Sure, they both have their shortcomings, but for the price they're just awesome value for money and a provide a great intro into AG brewing. Great times for home brewers.
Redreuben
Well-Known Member
Hi Guys, I'm currently looking at getting a single vessel brewery in the new year, at this point probably the Guten but I may build my own who knows.
Just wanted to comment on this overflow business, to get your mashes to the right temperature you need to be assured that your getting good flow through the grain bed right? And not have most of it go down the overflow, just enough to keep the under space full.
Consider this, old school mash tuns had rotating knives that cut the grain bed periodically to keep the flow up when sparging, when I used my old sparger I would cut the grain bed with the mash paddle to do the same thing, I reckon it would pay to do the same in these single vessel breweries, just to make sure the flow through the grain bed is doing its thing.
Just wanted to comment on this overflow business, to get your mashes to the right temperature you need to be assured that your getting good flow through the grain bed right? And not have most of it go down the overflow, just enough to keep the under space full.
Consider this, old school mash tuns had rotating knives that cut the grain bed periodically to keep the flow up when sparging, when I used my old sparger I would cut the grain bed with the mash paddle to do the same thing, I reckon it would pay to do the same in these single vessel breweries, just to make sure the flow through the grain bed is doing its thing.
altone
Well-Known Member
Yes the Kegland Keg King split up has left a lot of bad blood. I am an occasional customer of both, so try not to play favourites.
A good post from you @ABG . I've brewed with the V3 the Guten and a Braumeister (I'll have a go with the GF too if I can find someone who'll let me use theirs
)Once you get used to setting them up they all make beer. I really like the Braumeister best but the price is just way too much for me.
The Guten and Robobrew both have some weaknesses but they do provide a cost effective turnkey 1V system.
It would be nice if the politics were left out and this was a discussion about actual issues or idiosyncrasies of the 2 units.
As for your issue not hitting your numbers with the NEIPA, I'm working on a universal idiot detector but it seems to go off every time I start brewing
HaveFun
Well-Known Member
do you need a 10amp or 15amp power outlet for the Guten 50l system ?
I am brewing with a grainfather but I need a 50l system. I am happy with the grainfather I love the system and the controller plus app.
cheers
stefan
I am brewing with a grainfather but I need a 50l system. I am happy with the grainfather I love the system and the controller plus app.
cheers
stefan
Yes and no, from what I have read one can achieve a good boil dialing in less than 2500 watt I would get in touch with KK and see if they can confirm this. I still have yet to try mine but will report back, insulation jackets are due in any time so that will help.
altone
Well-Known Member
Yes I'm always concerned about that. I mean to my understanding a 10 amp circuit doesn't limit the draw to 10 amps or 2200 watts etc.
It just means you are overloading the circuit if you try to draw more than that.
Which leads to lots of heat being generated in the wiring and probably your circuit breakers tripping.
I wonder if there's a way that KK could program in a 10 amp option or add some kind of limiter for those who wanted it - so even if you forgot to dial down the wattage it could limit the max to the actual maximum a 10 amp circuit should be run at.
I only have the small one so not an issue for me and if I upgrade I'll have a 15 amp socket in the new shed - once I build it
HaveFun
Well-Known Member
can i fit the grainfather Bluetooth controller to the guten?
Cheers
Stefan
Cheers
Stefan
I wouldn't think it would be easy, I was going to suggest to Sidney Harbour Bridge to fit the Guten control circuit into the Robobrew G2 which died but it would mean cutting out the rectangle to get it to fit.
