Just to keep on the Guten hijack I found Murphy China freight the cheapest all up under the $500 for the 30L but never went ahead So WEAL how is it you might have to start a new thread because some people will get the sh&*ts for some reason You said the boil started straight away after the mash was that youre mistake or ??? feed back would be great If I had a BRAU or a GF it wouldnt worry me as I would be set for making wort just more options now Have been tossing up making my own Q Kev style wort maker which is another option Above post by rude from the thread Braumeister 50L for sale The mistake I referred to was mentioned in post 429 Keg King Robobrew 35 litre single vessel brewery. The mistake was too much liquor going into the boil after the mash, which after taking the reading the following day was only 1 point out on the SG. The reason I went ahead and purchased one of these was 1) To use when making a bigger beer 2) I was sceptical about the mash efficiency of the Grainfather and wanted to see for myself. The efficiency did turn out better than I expected, but I will be brewing again with a 6.6 kg grain bill to see if I can still get a decent result on mash efficiency, but I will be giving it every chance in achieving this by hitting the pause button and giving it a stir a few times during the mash cycle. Having the return fixed with a camlock fitting means I can quickly carry out this part of the operation on the Gruten. If a good seal is required around the bottom mesh then a couple of dollars spent on a silicone pressure cooker seal will fix that, (like it is on the Grainfather) The Achilles heel of these units is the elements, they are cemented in on the Robobrew and the Guten and I presume also on the Grainfather as the company which I believe makes all three in their profile say their R&D team have developed 3 different models, so if the element burns out that is the end of it. This is where the Braumeister comes into its own, each part can be replaced. So the element has to be taken care of, the Guten has a dial in wattage so with a jacket and maybe a hood it will not need to run on the full 2500w plus the automated boil can be timed for a 1/2 hour for a vigorous boil and then a gentle boil for the rest of the boil op. I would also like to point out I am not getting any monetary favours from the manufacturers, like most people I just like to try and get the best for less.