Robobrew V3 vs Guten

[fungrel]

I'm currently not an owner but am following following the thread closely as I'm having a serious look into purchasing one of these systems, hope this is not considered kijacking but I believe it's a relevant question...... what's the quality of the beer these systems are producing? Do they all brew good beer?

Wort making process is the most labour intensive of all the brewing processes, but I'd argue that it has the potential to contribute the least amount flavour-wise. So many other factors in play outside of the first 4hrs in a beer's life.

There isn't a considerable difference between the a $4k Braumeister and a $450 Robo aside from the usability and durability. Not a $3500 difference in wort quality.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

So a question and observation from an ex 4 vessel brewer who has been using a Guten 50lt system for a while now (done my time on the multi pots, guten is so much easier to use and clean).

When I was using the herms on my old system I would be aware of channelling, eg the liquid taking the path of least resistance through or around the grain. I noticed in the photos that the wort has free flow down the central pipe, would this affect your extraction? I always keep the return flow to a level where it stays under the overflow pipe with the guten.

cheers
nifty

I have tried it both ways and my observations were it made no difference, there is quite a head of wort on top of the grain bed, the hot wort would have a low viscosity so flows very easily. I was skeptical about the Grainfather efficiency, that is one of the reasons why I got the Guten because I wanted to see for my self if the efficiency would be similar to the BM and it is. I did a side by side test the BM and the Guten, same grain bill and liquor in both and the pre boil gravity came out exactly the same.
As I said in a post yesterday the BM pump breaks are effectively displacing the grain bed, much like stirring, the Guten grain bed is static, the wort must be draining throughout the bed, the difference may come about pushing the grain bill limits. The beer I made in the two systems together was an English Bitter with an ABV of 5%, so just an average grain bill
Also I paid $530 or $550 for my Guten and still think it was a good buy, the $380 introductory offer is a steal.

 

[Wolfman1]

I’m toying with the idea of one of these two and they look to be very similar with both being having more similarities than differences. I’d be looking at the smaller volume unit guten
My research seems to indicate and confirmation from owners would be helpful

1 Bazooka screen on guten - addable to RB but seems problematic on the guten anyway or has this been sorted from the early threads?

2 Step timer on guten appears better than RB with feedback to actual time at temp. Not so useful for boils, but great for step mash.

3 Variable power output on guten would make it better as a still boiler.
Ready connection tops for the RB make it easily converted to a still boiler but no variable power output so extra variable power controller is required

4 Hop spider included in the guten, extra for RB

5- 100w extra power output for guten 2500w vs 2400w. Useful for heating strike water only

6- Volume markings appear questionable on guten, but are correct on RB3 - is this sorted now?

7 - Wider diameter on guten means greater surface area so more evaporation losses on boiling. Slightly shorter so a bit easier to lift

8- It looks like the overflow pipe height is set on guten, but adjustable for smaller grain bills on the RB with the sliding tubes. Is this correct? What happens with smaller batches and the risk of a stuck recirc

9- dealing with keg king locally for an imported product vs kegland for the product they are developing. This one feels like favouring one person after a messy divorce. Kegland have been pretty active on this site so it feels like a friendlier place to spend money.

10 - max grain bill sounds like 8kg with each

11 - pump quality?

 

[wide eyed and legless]

I’m toying with the idea of one of these two and they look to be very similar with both being having more similarities than differences. I’d be looking at the smaller volume unit guten
My research seems to indicate and confirmation from owners would be helpful

1 Bazooka screen on guten - addable to RB but seems problematic on the guten anyway or has this been sorted from the early threads?

2 Step timer on guten appears better than RB with feedback to actual time at temp. Not so useful for boils, but great for step mash.

3 Variable power output on guten would make it better as a still boiler.
Ready connection tops for the RB make it easily converted to a still boiler but no variable power output so extra variable power controller is required

4 Hop spider included in the guten, extra for RB

5- 100w extra power output for guten 2500w vs 2400w. Useful for heating strike water only

6- Volume markings appear questionable on guten, but are correct on RB3 - is this sorted now?

7 - Wider diameter on guten means greater surface area so more evaporation losses on boiling. Slightly shorter so a bit easier to lift

8- It looks like the overflow pipe height is set on guten, but adjustable for smaller grain bills on the RB with the sliding tubes. Is this correct? What happens with smaller batches and the risk of a stuck recirc

9- dealing with keg king locally for an imported product vs kegland for the product they are developing. This one feels like favouring one person after a messy divorce. Kegland have been pretty active on this site so it feels like a friendlier place to spend money.

10 - max grain bill sounds like 8kg with each

11 - pump quality?

1. yes
2. 9 step timer, don't need it for the boil. Believe it also has recipe memory
3. Log in whatever power you want, I keep mine on 2000 watt
4. Hop spider included,yes
5. answered by yourself
6. The earlier ones are out because they went through the same roller embossing as the Grainfather.
7. Depends on the intensity of the boil
8. Overflow pipe is adjustable (remember the RB3 is a copy of the Guten)
9. Guten is proven all over Europe under 6 or 7 different monikas. If you are after a RB3, I may be able to get you one unused for $300 buyer is in country Victoria opened it up and was extremely disappointed in the quality, he is dropping it off for me to have a look at when he comes down to pick up a Guten from KegKing. I will keep you posted.
Going by the lack of endorsements for the RB3 should say something.
Missed that one, pump quality same as the Grainfather never a problem.

 

[Vazerhino]

What about the not using the pump on the guten after the boil? If the pump is better quality than the robobrew, why can’t you use it to pump out the wort fermenter? I’ve never had a problem with the robobrew version 2 during chilling (with immersion chiller) nor into the fermenter. Also I’ve seen one of the guten stablemates (brew devil??) in Europe sells a whirpool arm attachment. So why not the same for Guten?

 

[wide eyed and legless]

What about the not using the pump on the guten after the boil? If the pump is better quality than the robobrew, why can’t you use it to pump out the wort fermenter? I’ve never had a problem with the robobrew version 2 during chilling (with immersion chiller) nor into the fermenter. Also I’ve seen one of the guten stablemates (brew devil??) in Europe sells a whirpool arm attachment. So why not the same for Guten?

Same pump on the Grainfather as the Guten, as the Brew Devil is the same machine you probably could, Magical Pancake fitted his own. As for pumping out the wort, why? Most of us who have the Guten has the helix fitted to the tap so defeats the object of getting a clear wort.

 

[FarsideOfCrazy]

The pump pick up is just a hole in the bottom so hops would go straight in the pump, no filter on that hole. So you'd have to rig something to stop that.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

The pump pick up is just a hole in the bottom so hops would go straight in the pump, no filter on that hole. So you'd have to rig something to stop that.

If the pump inlet had a filter, then any grain that escaped out of the malt pipe would stay in the kettle for the boil, any grain that does go into the kettle gets sucked up by the pump and spat back into the malt pipe.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

As per post 24, I have a Robobrew G3 to sell, checked it over and yes the screens are bent and it is memory bends which I mentioned in another post. The screens are punched out on a press with the feed coming directly off the coil instead of going through a coil straightener, not such a big issue but will be difficult to get them straight. Yes someone stuffed up big time designing the false bottom the legs are the same height as the top of the tap opening so it will not sit on 3 legs, also there is a 5mm gap between the edge of the kettle and the false bottom. Not as bad as what I was imagining, a trip to Geordi Stainless buy some perforated off cuts and fix it up.
So sorry chaps, it looks like its back to the drawing board and start working on Robobrew G4.

$300 when I have confirmed it has an electrical appliance approval number. Doesn't seem to be one on the unit.

 

[altone]

Kind of on topicish.

Has anyone filled the Guten to the max with grain?

I was present for a brew on a Robobrew 2 today with 8.2Kg of grain.
It was up to the maltpipe holes but it managed to get through the whole thing without a hitch.

I don't know if the vessel/maltpipe are same dimensions or not - just wondering how far someones pushed the Guten
and if it managed ok.

 

[Fleabag]

Also on the switch, standing at the front of the machine the pump switch is behind the on/off switch. as the pump switch is used the most during the brew it is better to have the pump switch as the foremost switch to save accidentally switching off the machine during the brew. When I replaced my switch ($7)
I put the pump switch to the front, hell of a lot better.

Going full volume is tricky but there are ways to get more into the malt pipe, as Leyther says the central overflow pipe is to short but can be extended with some silicone hose, I think I used 25 mm ID cut it with a box cutter down the length and it folds in on itself. The problem then is the handle holes where the grains can get through.
View attachment 113361
Another piece of silicone through both holes and another litre or two of liquor can go in.
Funny thing is, any grain that has left the malt pipe has just been pumped up and back into the malt pipe. Grainfather has the same pump but a number of complaints that the pump gets blocked, so really the only issue I have had was the switch.

I’ve been having this exact issue on larger grain amounts with Robobrew Gen 3. Thinking next time I’ll take out the central overflow pipe and use a grain bag inside the Robobrew. Basically do it as a BIAB but with recirculation. Should be able to get a few more litres in.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

I’ve been having this exact issue on larger grain amounts with Robobrew Gen 3. Thinking next time I’ll take out the central overflow pipe and use a grain bag inside the Robobrew. Basically do it as a BIAB but with recirculation. Should be able to get a few more litres in.

I think it might be a bit drastic going for a BIAB, I have a couple of ideas for the G3 and an idea to bring the Robobrew G 2 up to par. Hopefully will be able to post something up during the next week.

 

[dago001]

I have a RB V3 - I have done 12 brews with it, and for one reason or another, I can't seem to get any consistency with it. Stuck mash - stuck sparge - poor efficiency are the main problems.
A common solution for stuck mashes is to use rice hulls, but I didn't buy this to use rice hulls in my mash. To get a grain crush that didn't give me a stuck mash/sparge, I would end up with 58% brewhouse efficiency. But even that wasn't consistent. I tried a few different settings on my mill, even tried wet milling. The crush was always good with plenty of husks (not ripped or shredded) but it didn't seem to make any difference.
I ended up not using the fine mesh, which fixed the stuck mash issue, but the efficiency problem remained. It has really given me the sh!ts, as I had no efficiency problems with my HEX system prior to buying this. I often see people posting about 80% BHE with the RBv3, but I can't seem to get anywhere near that. I'd be happy with 65 - 70.
I'll keep it as a HLT and boil kettle, but I am going to resurrect my old HEX system.
It's possibly a good entry level system for all grain brewing, but BIAB is probably a more reliable and easier path for a beginner
For me, it just an expensive saveloy cooker and a backwards step in my brewing.

 

[TwoCrows]

Wooooow the screens do look bent on yours, mine have a slight slight curve but work well. I don't use the bottom screen( false floor) after mashing.I lift it out, helps at whirlpool. BM doesn't even have one.
Like stated above , use a hop spider or hop bag if you are worried about extra trub.
Yes the malt pipe does have it's limitations like all units, 1.060 wort is not uncommon.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

I have a RB V3 - I have done 12 brews with it, and for one reason or another, I can't seem to get any consistency with it. Stuck mash - stuck sparge - poor efficiency are the main problems.
A common solution for stuck mashes is to use rice hulls, but I didn't buy this to use rice hulls in my mash. To get a grain crush that didn't give me a stuck mash/sparge, I would end up with 58% brewhouse efficiency. But even that wasn't consistent. I tried a few different settings on my mill, even tried wet milling. The crush was always good with plenty of husks (not ripped or shredded) but it didn't seem to make any difference.
I ended up not using the fine mesh, which fixed the stuck mash issue, but the efficiency problem remained. It has really given me the sh!ts, as I had no efficiency problems with my HEX system prior to buying this. I often see people posting about 80% BHE with the RBv3, but I can't seem to get anywhere near that. I'd be happy with 65 - 70.
I'll keep it as a HLT and boil kettle, but I am going to resurrect my old HEX system.
It's possibly a good entry level system for all grain brewing, but BIAB is probably a more reliable and easier path for a beginner
For me, it just an expensive saveloy cooker and a backwards step in my brewing.

Don't throw the towel in just yet, try and straighten the screens as best you can, it is difficult because the chrome an nickel keeps the spring in it. As said above get rid of the false bottom, the 2 screens in the bottom, the mesh one is probably the only one that is straight make up an "O" ring using some of the hard silicone tube join together with irrigation hose connectors from Bunnings, make as big as possible so you end up with a nice tight fit. I haven't tried it before, so it could float, wire it to the screen with copper wire this should prevent anything getting past.

As for your efficiency and stuck mash I have found brewing with a higher liquor to grain ratio will eliminate that problem 5 kg of grain make it between 4 & 5 litres per kg leave about 3 litres for a rinse through the grain bed. Make sure the ratio is dialed in to Brewers Friend or whichever program you are using.
The rice hulls you can still use them but wash them prior to going into the mix, rice is one of the most sprayed crops around, you don't know what **** is on them. You will probably not need them with the higher ratio of liquor to grain.
This is the most cost effective way I can think of for fixing the screens problem, the other is to fork out money and make up a screen to replace the bottom one.

The extent of the curvature of the screens depends on whether the screens came from the start of the roll or the end of the roll, I mentioned before, if they had made tooling up to give a couple of small 45 degree bends in the screens, making it like a plate, the stamping process would have work hardened them leaving them rigid and flat.

There is a limit to the amount of grain if anyone wants to put 7 or 8 kg it would make more sense to get a bigger unit or do a reiterated mash.

 

[awfulknauful]

View attachment 113402[/QUOTE]

So what is the outcome.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

View attachment 113402

So what is the outcome.[/QUOTE]
Still working on it, but I have found something which could be interesting.

 

[Wolfman1]

I just spoke with KK and they reckon the price for the 40lt is going to go to about 460 following the intro sale.
I think I’m going to have to wait for finances to ease a little before investing/splashing.

 

[Pundy]

Does anyone know if there is a jacket for the Guten? (Available in Aus preferably)

 

[jibba02]

Does anyone know if there is a jacket for the Guten? (Available in Aus preferably)

Kk had one on their brewmonk display model so i would say so.