RecipeDB - DrSmurto's Golden Ale

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From the doctor himself:

"MO and GP - This beer is balanced between malt and hops so it needs a good malt backbone and over the years I have come to the conclusion that Australian malt can't provide that. It's not malted with that in mind; no commercial beer brewed on a large scale has a real malt backbone (IMHO). English beers have that character in spades and hence their malt is malted with that in mind. The same philosophy applies to Vienna and Munich malts which are available in Australian versions but I find them lacking. I prefer quality over cost saving."

source: http://homebrewandbeer.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=11013
 
Yeah I think it would work nicely, pils was used for the original version but it was subbed out reasonably quickly.

Given the mash temp and the sort of body that you are after any ale malt would be a better fit than any pils. In my amateur opinion of course.
 
I'm drinking a batch of the good Docs GA ATM....MO and GP base, Amarillo, Centennial, Cascade and Simcoe.
Bloody beautiful beer, certainly way better than anything I tried at several craft venues over the last 36 hours.

EDIT: No Im sorry it was with JW Trad Ale. Thats weird unlike me not to go MO and/or GP. Next time for sure, which won't be far away.
 
yum beer said:
I'm drinking a batch of the good Docs GA ATM....MO and GP base, Amarillo, Centennial, Cascade and Simcoe.
Bloody beautiful beer, certainly way better than anything I tried at several craft venues over the last 36 hours.

EDIT: No Im sorry it was with JW Trad Ale. Thats weird unlike me not to go MO and/or GP. Next time for sure, which won't be far away.
Amazing. I havent read this thread for years. Dr S' GA was one of my first couple of AG beers after joining this site.
Back then it was Pils, Wheat, Caramunich and Munich, with Amarillo all the way. I thought it was a damn good clone.
I'm sure your beer is very nice yum beer. It does sound good.
Is this what Dr S' GA has become somehow? Does it even resemble JSGA any more?
 
Everybody should make a batch and bottle into JS Chancer Bottles and when any 'not drinking home brew' ******s come around you can offer them a bottle of commercial craft beer.
'**** thats nice, I didn't think JS tasted like that'....
'it doesn't, do you want another.'

Just thinking I should not have taken all the labels off...I bottle mainly in JS bottles because they are readily available to a cheap home brew scrooge when hunting in the big recycle bin at the tip.
 
I wonder how the current version (below) would go with a Saison yeast?

55% Ale (normally TF FM MO or GP)
20% Vienna (german)
20% Rye
5% Carabohemian
Magnum @ 60 to 30 IBU
Victoria 1.5g/L @ 20 and 0
WY1272 American Ale II
Water chemistry - CaSO4 and CaCl2 added to achieve ~ Ca 90 ppm with the SO4:Cl ratio at ~1:1 starting from rainwater so no Na, Mg or CO3.
Mash - 67C for 90 mins, 78C mashout.
 
This was my first AG beer and gee it tastes nice. I couldn't believe how it turned out :) ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1420889245.036740.jpg
 
slcmorro said:
Did you pour it from the second storey balcony? :p

Nah, glad you're into it mate. It's a slippery slope!
My sister asked if it was a frappe lol..

It was really bitter when I bottled it but mellowed out quite well :)
 
I have just put a brew of this down for the first time. I cant get the hops listed in the recipe and after asking for some replacements on this forum Dr Smurto was kind enough to contact me and suggested using NZ motueka or riwaka.
I no chill and BIAB and bittered with 9gm pacific gem @40 then 20gm motueka @fo.
I want to dry hop with motueka and was wondering if anyone has gone this way before. I was thinking 20gm motueka.
I don't want it to out there with the hops and was hoping to get some quiet hop flavour.
Any advice?
 
Nick667 said:
I have just put a brew of this down for the first time. I cant get the hops listed in the recipe and after asking for some replacements on this forum Dr Smurto was kind enough to contact me and suggested using NZ motueka or riwaka.
I no chill and BIAB and bittered with 9gm pacific gem @40 then 20gm motueka @fo.
I want to dry hop with motueka and was wondering if anyone has gone this way before. I was thinking 20gm motueka.
I don't want it to out there with the hops and was hoping to get some quiet hop flavour.
Any advice?
IMO >1g/L is 'out there'. For a milder hop flavour use ~0.5g/L
Some brewers go 2g/L but to me thats up in the IPA dry hopping ballpark. This is an ave strength APA so my recommendation is to go low (10-15g for 20L) and only for 2 or 3 days at cold conditioning, before packaging. It ised to be called B Saaz and I loved it as a late hop addition at this suggested rate in the Bright Ale clones I used to make.
 
IMO >1g/L is 'out there'. For a milder hop flavour use ~0.5g/L
Some brewers go 2g/L but to me thats up in the IPA dry hopping ballpark. This is an ave strength APA so my recommendation is to go low (10-15g for 20L) and only for 2 or 3 days at cold conditioning, before packaging. It ised to be called B Saaz and I loved it as a late hop addition at this suggested rate in the Bright Ale clones I used to make.
[/


Thanks so much for that I is a big help to have some numbers to work with.
I've got 25L down so I will try 15g.
I have done an ipa with large quantities of motueka and it was really nice but it can just get a bit over powering at times and almost seemed to vanish if left in the bottles to long.
 
Nick667 said:
I have just put a brew of this down for the first time. I cant get the hops listed in the recipe and after asking for some replacements on this forum Dr Smurto was kind enough to contact me and suggested using NZ motueka or riwaka.
I no chill and BIAB and bittered with 9gm pacific gem @40 then 20gm motueka @fo.
I want to dry hop with motueka and was wondering if anyone has gone this way before. I was thinking 20gm motueka.
I don't want it to out there with the hops and was hoping to get some quiet hop flavour.
Any advice?
I have a DGSA in the fermenting fridge at the moment using Riwaka and bittered with Magnum. Had a taste today at the 1 week mark. In my amateur opinion, Riwaka fits the bill perfectly, maybe even better than Amarillo. The proof will be in the pudding.
 
slcmorro said:
Does anyone have any thoughts on how using Golden Promise over Pils/Trad would make this beer better/worse?
I make this one with maris otter and love the result, but then i could put mo in anything and like it, but yeah the biscuity taste goes well in my opinion
 
Is it just me, or has this recipe disappeared from the database?
 
Hi Guys,

This is some of the notes I had in BeerSmith. Smurto has been active this week, he may see this and offer insights.

DrSmurto's Golden Ale - History, evolution and musings
The golden ale started out life as a JSGA clone on this very forum and was initially posted by a brewer called Pale_Ale back in Feb 2007. It didn't contain wheat or crystal and used the kit yeast.

Pale_Ale's original recipe;
1 can Coopers Sparkling Ale
1.5 kg Coopers Light Malt Extract
15g Amarillo @ 30 minutes
15g Amarillo @ 15 minutes
15g Amarillo @ 2 minutes
Topped up to 20L (not 23L).

Over time on this forum, it evolved and I took it under my wing, slowly tweaking it brew by brew and turned it into the kit recipe you now see listed on AHB and other places.

The final kit version I made;
1 can Coopers Lager
1 can Coopers Wheat Malt
250g crystal (caramalt, caramunich, carabohemian, light/medium english crystal)
20g Amarillo @ 15 and 0 (sometimes listed as 15g @ 10, 5 and dry hop, i prefer the former)
US-05
Topped up to 20L (not 23L).

This can be converted to full extract by replacing the hopped kit with the same quantity of unhopped extract (1.7kg liquid extract) and adding a bittering hop at 60 min to 30 IBU total.

The 1st AG version which was brewed on the 8th of September, 2007 (and no, not my 1st AG, it was my 4th ).

55% Pils
20% Munich I
20% Wheat
5% Caramunich II
(All Weyermann malt)
Amarillo @ 60 to 31 IBU
0.75g/L @ 10, 5 and dry hop
US05
Mash - 66C for 90 mins, 78C mashout.

The first major variation was several months later when i replaced the Pils with JW Trad Ale and caramunich with JW caramalt. I also had by now gotten over the tendency of new brewers to dry hop everything so the late hop schedule had become 1g/L at 20 and 0. This version was the one entered in ANAWBS in 2008 and scored 46/50 winning its category (english bitter) and beer of show. As an english bitter it exploited a loophole in the guidelines which allowed american hops. I had entered it as an APA in SABSOSA earlier that year and it scored 31.75/50 in the APA category with comments of lacking hop flavour and aroma and more of an english pale ale than american. I took that information on board and the loophole in ANAWBS and entered it as an english bitter and the rest is history. To be fair, the golden ale is not that different to an english summer ale where the beers tend to be lighter in colour and higher in hop flavour and aroma.

Award winning version

55% JW trad ale
20% Weyermann Munich I
20% Weyermann Wheat
5% Caramalt
Amarillo @ 60 to 31 IBU
1g/L @ 20 and 0
US05
Mash - 66C for 90 mins, 78C mashout.

Over the years i have used this recipe to try out new grains, hops and yeast using the ideology that by changing 1 variable at a time, you get a better understanding of the contribution of each new ingredient. Different base malts, crystal malts, hops, yeast and even water chemistry have been used. I kept the % of grain the same, the g/L of late additions the same so whilst it has changed over time to not resemble the original in many ways the ideology behind the recipe remains the same; balance. Easy drinking, balanced beer with plenty of hop flavour and aroma but also with a great malt backbone that carries through. In reality, the philosophy is english in style but using more aromatic hops (american, australian, NZ).

I used this recipe for a homegrown hop series a few years ago to compare the flavour and aroma of my homegrown hops and used the results of that to decide whether to keep or dig up hops. As a consequence of that series i now only have Victoria and Chinook in the garden. Not that the other hops were bad, they weren't, it was just a matter of space vs how much homegrown hops i wanted.

So to my current and favourite variation.

55% Ale (normally TF FM MO or GP)
20% Vienna (german)
20% Rye
5% Carabohemian
Magnum @ 60 to 30 IBU
Victoria 1.5g/L @ 20 and 0
WY1272 American Ale II
Water chemistry - CaSO4 and CaCl2 added to achieve ~ Ca 90 ppm with the SO4:Cl ratio at ~1:1 starting from rainwater so no Na, Mg or CO3.
Mash - 67C for 90 mins, 78C mashout.

Carabohemian is easily my favourite spec malt. It has 90% of the flavour of caraaroma minus the burnt toffee notes and ~ half the EBC.

Rye is an amazing grain and ever since trying my first beer with it in it I have been hooked. At this % it does increase the mouthfeel a bit making it seem more full bodied and the spicy, earthy characters comes through.

Vienna over Munich was something i stumbled upon when i ran out of munich once. Munich adds a bready/toasty character whilst Vienna is more smooth honey like whilst still adding plenty of malt backbone. I found it allowed the rye to shine through a bit better than munich.

MO and GP - This beer is balanced between malt and hops so it needs a good malt backbone and over the years I have come to the conclusion that Australian malt can't provide that. It's not malted with that in mind; no commercial beer brewed on a large scale has a real malt backbone (IMHO). English beers have that character in spades and hence their malt is malted with that in mind. The same philosophy applies to Vienna and Munich malts which are available in Australian versions but I find them lacking. I prefer quality over cost saving.

The yeast choice is quite simple. US05 is clean, easy to use and reliable but adds nothing to the beer. WY1272 adds an extra dimension with ester production. I also find it clears better.

Homegrown Victoria hops are amazing. The first time i tasted a beer that used this hop (a homebrew from the now head brewer @ MVBeer) it screamed Loquats (citrus, mango, peach). Goes beautifully with rye and I get enough from my plants to brew a number of batches each year.

So there you have it, my take on the golden ale.


Cheers,
Idzy
 
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