Pitching New Yeast At Bottling Time

[murrayr]

hey all, just a quick question regarding...
i've got a christmas ale that's sat in the primary for two weeks and will sit in the secondary for another 4 weeks before i bottle it. last time i had an ale sitting for nearly this long it didn't carbonate very well at all.
should i pitch a fresh round of yeast when it comes time to bottle to give it a helping hand? and what yeast would do well for mere carbonation reasons?
cheers, murray

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

hey all, just a quick question regarding...
i've got a christmas ale that's sat in the primary for two weeks and will sit in the secondary for another 4 weeks before i bottle it. last time i had an ale sitting for nearly this long it didn't carbonate very well at all.
should i pitch a fresh round of yeast when it comes time to bottle to give it a helping hand? and what yeast would do well for mere carbonation reasons?
cheers, murray

Yes pitcha neutral flavour profile yeast and one that flocculates well.I would use a lager strain but an Ale temp yeast may suit you better.Make sure the yeast is well and going before seeding the bottles. BTW you are going to miss Christmas if you dont get your finger out :icon_cheers:
GB

 

[Steve]

Yes pitcha neutral flavour profile yeast and one that flocculates well.I would use a lager strain but an Ale temp yeast may suit you better.Make sure the yeast is well and going before seeding the bottles. BTW you are going to miss Christmas if you dont get your finger out :icon_cheers:
GB

Wow! Thats the first time ive ever heard anyone say, yes pitch another yeast come bottling time Surely there'll be enough yeast still in there to carb it up?
Cheers
Steve

 

[murrayr]

thanks steve, i'll probably do just that.
the reason i want to do this is because last time i left a beer in the secondary for as long as this beer will be, it barely carbonated at all in the bottle. i have heard that many of the trappist breweries in belgium use fresh yeast come bottling time and was wondering if not doing so would be the reason my one didn't work out. any further advice or experiencce anyone has on the subject would be dandy.
cheers, murray

 

[manticle]

Many of the bottle conditioned commercial beers are filtered so reseeding is necessary.

On a homebrewing level it seems rarely recommended. If you're willing, try and split the batch and reseed half and leave the other half.

I've toyed with the idea as I'm trying to make a perfect dubbel and using the same techniques seems to make sense. However I am not a commercial brewery so some of those techniques may not always translate. Maybe you just didn't leave your brew long enough previously?

 

[murrayr]

yeah, i suppose.
my only concern is how long it is being left in the secondary. would leaving it for any prolonged period of time persuade you into doing something similar?

 

[manticle]

Maybe if it was a few months. I regularly leave my brews in secondary for 7 -21 days, some of which is cold conditioning time during which yeast flocs out. 4 weeks is not ridiculous in my opinion (recent lager, while **** for other reasons, was lagered in secondary for 4 weeks+ - no issues with carb).

 

[Spartan 117]

murrayr, how did you prime the bottle last time, could it be that you didn't put enough sugar or malt or whatever in for priming. Also with the last batch that you left for 4 weeks on secondary when it came time to pop one open did you get all the crud and yeast settle to the bottom, if so I wouldn't say its a lack of yeast.

Aaron

 

[murrayr]

last time i used a set amount of dextrose put in each bottle as i always do...or used to anyway, now i add it to the batch before i bottle. i did let everything settle before i opened it last time, yes. i'm still not sure but i probably will end up not pitching more yeast. but if i were to would there be any negative side effects that doing so could impart?
cheers, murray

 

[manticle]

I guess the main thing to look out for is pitching the right amount and making sure it's viable. Yeast affects flavour so too much might result in an undesirable flavour. Other than that I can't think of anything but as I haven't done it I may not be the best person to answer. I think palmer talks about it in how to brew (reseeding and amounts to use). Maybe just try a few bottles and see for yourself (say around 5). Make sure you mark which are which.

 

[murrayr]

that's not a bad idea, do you think putting a small amount of dried yeast (say, a tiny sprinkling) straight into the bottle before hand would do it. i might just do 2 or 3 to see if theres any real difference

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

Wow! Thats the first time ive ever heard anyone say, yes pitch another yeast come bottling time Surely there'll be enough yeast still in there to carb it up?
Cheers
Steve

Its possible that the yeast has been through a high gravity "Christmas" brew, and I doubt after that and combined with a long primary + secondary that this yeast will be in a good/vital condition. And I like to do things that I know will work.Given those parameters I would re seed. Each to there own, I would go with the way its done traditionally.
GB

 

[manticle]

I'm not the person to ask but 5 bottles is no biggie. The palmer reference I spoke of suggests a pitchable pack straight into the fermenter so I guess calculate the amount by considering the ratio of total number of bottles: reseeded bottles. The main thing is probably to keep it consistent so you have a reasonable point of comparison.

Good luck with it. Interested to hear how it goes but take my input with a grain of salt.

 

[Steve]

Rack to secondary after its done and condition for 1 week in secondary. Bottle it and you have 3 weeks left for it to condition/carb up ready to drink on christmas day.

 

[murrayr]

it's in the secondary for 4 weeks cause its in there with oak chips. giving it a bit of a classical oak barrel aged flavour.
probably won't really be ready til christmas in july

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

it's in the secondary for 4 weeks cause its in there with oak chips. giving it a bit of a classical oak barrel aged flavour.
probably won't really be ready til christmas in july

I though it may be a "special brew" hence my suggestions.
GB

 

[murrayr]

cheers GB. starting to think i might try half n half n see if theres any difference. i'll keep you all updated but it wont be for a little while

 

[b_thomas]

What temps are you looking at for the secondary? If you're dropping it right down to lagering temps I'd repitch. Also if you've pushed the alcohol limits of the yeast I'd also repitch. Another reason to repitch would be if you underpitched in the first place, I'd treat a high grav beer the same as a lager and jam as much of the yeasty beasties in to the primary fermenter as possible.

Basically if you're going to stress your yeast or put them to "sleep" then consider adding either some of the primary yeast (half of a wyeast packet minus the nutrient would be fine) or a neutral yeast (I'd go with the primary yeast as you know it would handle the alcohol levels).

You could alternatively ramp up the bottle temp 27-30c for the first 2 weeks before dropping them down to cellaring temps.

 

[murrayr]

you've just reminded me i pitched 2 lots of yeast cause of the high initial gravity, WLP004 and Saf-brew T-58. secondary is sitting in the fridge at a cosy 17 degrees. when they hit the bottles they will be exposed to a wonderfully hot summer as i haven't cellaring conditions to work with. if i were to repitch i'd probably use the T-58 again

 

[b_thomas]

MrMalty isn't loading for me atm, but assuming you'd be aiming for 19litres of 7-10% alcohol mark for an Xmas special you've probably underpitched for your primary. However given you're sitting at 17c for your secondary and assuming your primary fermentation went well, you should have enough to to have to worry about repitching.

If you're going to be leaving your bottles to the elements I'd be wary of deliberately going ahead with a tertiary fermentation ie. adding more yeast, if you overpitch you could very well end up with bottle bombs, I'd give 2-3 weeks for tertiary fermentation to get carbed up before popping them in to a warmish fridge for 6 months.