High Temperature Hose Selection - Be Careful!

[muckey]

I believe that was the point of PP,s thread.
GB

agreed

he likes to throw these topics out there to get people to rethink their processes and hopefully improve thing for everyone

 

[Leigh]

a lot of food grade pvc hose is only rated as being capable of use with liquids of 65 degress C or less without the plastic breaking down. No guarantees of what will happen if you put boiling wort through it.

starting to wonder if I need to rethink my hose

Actually PVC hose will break down in water at lower temperatures, given the right conditions (dissolved material and temperature) this accelerates the process (hence why I keep asking what he did to the hoses to sanitise).

The rating is usually determined by what the end use is and an acceptable rate of breakdown for that use. Although the ratings can be for different objectives as QB was saying.

Contrary to what others (GB?) would have you believe, there is no "sudden" magical temperature at which PVC will suddenly leach huge amounts of plasticiser or monomer...it is a gradual thing.

I highly doubt 5 minutes of running 90-95 degree wort through a tube is going to leach enough plasticiser from a 65 degree rated hose to be discernable in 20 L, unless of course that the hose is already starting to breakdown...sit the hose in the sun full of water all day or boil it in water and you will, but this is not what he is Foles is doing...is it?

Silicon hose is just a little more resilient to these processes...if Foles can kill two bits of PVC hose before he attaches them to his brewery, I believe he will also kill the Si hose and end up with the same problem...

Ho Hum, you try to help and get berated...

 

[QldKev]

Fluk, is that what you call that shiny thing the beer comes out of ? :lol:

Nope, thats what you say when you drop that shiny thing the beer comes out of.. :unsure:

QldKev

 

[Leigh]

I mentioned it in a previous post - sodium percarbonate (if my memory serves me correctly) and tap water.

How long? What temperature? How much sodium percarbonate in how much water? (thanks 3g)

 

[3G]

:lol: lets not forget pH as well!!

 

[muckey]

Actually PVC hose will break down in water at lower temperatures, given the right conditions (dissolved material and temperature) this accelerates the process (hence why I keep asking what he did to the hoses to sanitise).

The rating is usually determined by what the end use is and an acceptable rate of breakdown for that use. Although the ratings can be for different objectives as QB was saying.

Contrary to what others (GB?) would have you believe, there is no "sudden" magical temperature at which PVC will suddenly leach huge amounts of plasticiser or monomer...it is a gradual thing.

I highly doubt 5 minutes of running 90-95 degree wort through a tube is going to leach enough plasticiser from a 65 degree rated hose to be discernable in 20 L, unless of course that the hose is already starting to breakdown...sit the hose in the sun full of water all day or boil it in water and you will, but this is not what he is Foles is doing...is it?

Silicon hose is just a little more resilient to these processes...if Foles can kill two bits of PVC hose before he attaches them to his brewery, I believe he will also kill the Si hose and end up with the same problem...

Ho Hum, you try to help and get berated...

true.

so any thoughts on what may be giving a greater breakdown in foles situation than others here have experienced ( note your point in trying to obtain more info, just trying to get more info my self)

edit : typo's

 

[QldKev]

How long? What temperature?

what was the tap water profile h34r:

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

Actually PVC hose will break down in water at lower temperatures, given the right conditions (dissolved material and temperature) this accelerates the process (hence why I keep asking what he did to the hoses to sanitise).

The rating is usually determined by what the end use is and an acceptable rate of breakdown for that use. Although the ratings can be for different objectives as QB was saying.

Contrary to what others (GB?) would have you believe, there is no "sudden" magical temperature at which PVC will suddenly leach huge amounts of plasticiser or monomer...it is a gradual thing.

I highly doubt 5 minutes of running 90-95 degree wort through a tube is going to leach enough plasticiser from a 65 degree rated hose to be discernable in 20 L, unless of course that the hose is already starting to breakdown...sit the hose in the sun full of water all day or boil it in water and you will, but this is not what he is Foles is doing...is it?

Silicon hose is just a little more resilient to these processes...if Foles can kill two bits of PVC hose before he attaches them to his brewery, I believe he will also kill the Si hose and end up with the same problem...

Ho Hum, you try to help and get berated...

You have not mentioned volatilisation points in your round up?
GB

 

[Leigh]

You have not mentioned volatilisation points in your round up?
GB

Christ, another piece of data from the All Knowing Wise One...didn't know he was well above the boiling point of water

 

[Leigh]

true.

so any thoughts on what may be giving a greater breakdown in foles situation than others here have experienced ( note your point in trying to obtain more info, just trying to get more info my self)

edit : typo's

I have a few, but not going to mention them because as soon as I do the All Knowing Wise One says "we did that" or "we didn't do that"...

I will wait for the response so the AKWO doesn't change the story to fulfil his witch hunt of other retailers...

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

I have a few, but not going to mention them because as soon as I do the All Knowing Wise One says "we did that" or "we didn't do that"...

I will wait for the response so the AKWO doesn't change the story to fulfil his witch hunt of other retailers...

Your funny.
GB

 

[Darren]

I think thats true, the hose was the problem, swapping it out solved the issue....
but the question is...... why was the hose the problem when so many others use the same hose....

Its a well known fact that there are "tasters" and "non-tasters". Perhaps the OP could taste it but many other people cant.
I have judged many infected beers but presumably the entrant though it was top-notch.

cheers

Darren

 

[Scruffy]

All this for a forkin pipe... it's lucky they didn't mention the dirty knife...

 

[Leigh]

Your funny.
GB

And you can't spell :icon_cheers:

 

[jonocarroll]

I highly doubt 5 minutes of running 90-95 degree wort through a tube is going to leach enough plasticiser from a 65 degree rated hose to be discernable in 20 L, unless of course that the hose is already starting to breakdown...sit the hose in the sun full of water all day or boil it in water and you will, but this is not what he is Foles is doing...is it?

Silicon hose is just a little more resilient to these processes...if Foles can kill two bits of PVC hose before he attaches them to his brewery, I believe he will also kill the Si hose and end up with the same problem...

Ho Hum, you try to help and get berated...

Interesting point. What else might have been done wrong?

Since I'm not even trying to help anymore, I'll add a nice little comparison from TV; I've watched all of 1 episode of 'House, M.D.' but it had a lovely little scene with a woman who was complaining about her asthma inhaler (puffer). I can't find a transcript, but it was along the lines of

Woman: My inhaler does nothing. It's useless. My asthma is as bad as ever.
House: Are you using it correctly?
Woman: Of course, do I look like an idiot? There must be something wrong with it.
House: Show me how you use it...




Woman: See, no help whatsover!

 

[Darren]

Leigh,

Lets not forget that many brewers are recirculating mash temp and BOILING WORT through their hoses for anything up to two hours (depending on the system).

Now I am unsure how long the tube was exposed to these temps but there is a good chance that PVC could leach, especially if the hose is not rated for food at those temps.

Also FWIW, I have had piece of silicon tubing I use to hold my outdoor blinds down that has sat in the Adelaide sun all day everyday for 5 years and it looks and behaves exactly as it did when I first used it. The "Occy straps" I originally used dissolved years ago.

cheers

Darren

 

[Batz]

So where's bloody P.P. now?
Look what your done !

Batz

 

[muckey]

So where's bloody P.P. now?
Look what your done !

Batz

awww .

dont make him sit in the corner for a timeout

 

[smollocks]

There's no need for people to get upset about this, it's fairly simple. If replacing only the PVC with silicone hose made the problem go away, it means one of two things:

1. The individual piece of PVC hose in question was bad in some way, or
2. All PVC hose is bad.

The number of people using reinforced PVC successfully means that option 1 is the most likely. It's true that foles doesn't have watertight scientific evidence that all PVC is bad, but everyone has to admit that PVC isn't officially rated for temperatures above 65C, and it's therefore a personal decision whether you use it.

Not that it matters here, but I went for silicone hose because there's less than $5 difference between the two and I prefer to play it safe with a product rated for my usage.

 

[Damian44]

Can everyone stop posting, as this thread has grown by 2 pages since i started reading it. Just let me catch up.

Edit. 3 pages