High Temperature Hose Selection - Be Careful!

[domonsura]

Turkey HB..... if I was representing it as being rated for use at high temp then that might be so, but I am not, and have not made any representation as such to foles or anyone else. I advertise and sell it as PVC hosing with all the inherent properties of PVC, and make no claims whatsoever as to it's suitability for high temp or chemical use.
What I am entitled to do is relate my considerable experience with it as per my brewing use including my PERSONAL choice to use it for hot side transfer, and also to disagree with anyone who makes baseless broad statements about a product causing an issue with the sole piece of 'evidence' provided being a rating provided by a distributor that does not refer at all to it's unsuitability, simply provides a guide for it's suitability which is something complettely different.
If you have interpreted my disagreement with the statement that the hosing 'caused the issue without question', as professional advice that the hosing is suitable for hot transfer and rated as such then you have mis-interpreted what I have said.

 

[user3673]

Turkey HB..... if I was representing it as being rated for use at high temp then that might be so, but I am not, and have not made any representation as such to foles or anyone else. I advertise and sell it as PVC hosing with all the inherent properties of PVC, and make no claims whatsoever as to it's suitability for high temp or chemical use.

From your website

Helical Wire wound PVC hosing

Wire cored soft PVC, vacumn resistant & food grade.
This tubing doesn't collapse when hot liquid is run through it - even using a pump, making it ideal for use in home breweries.[\quote]

 

[Daniel.lear]

Define Hot?

Hot could be any thing above 40c degress. The term hot is open to ones perception.

Leary

 

[haysie]

Define Hot?

Hot could be any thing above 40c degress. The term hot is open to ones perception.

Leary

 

[mika]

Who likes short shorts ?

 

[domonsura]

From your website

Helical Wire wound PVC hosing

Wire cored soft PVC, vacumn resistant & food grade.
This tubing doesn't collapse when hot liquid is run through it - even using a pump, making it ideal for use in home breweries.[\quote]
[\quote]

Hot...not boiling. 65 degree water is very hot (too hot for most to comfortably immerse their hand in). This hosing is rated food grade to 65 degrees C. @ 125 psi, I have only provided the manufacturer's specification. Simple as that. No other claims have been made, other than for me to say that personally I have used this hose outside it's rated specs without issue as have many others, and to some extent that disproves the user's and his friends' theories that the hose has tainted his brews. The rest is semantics as far as I'm concerned, as I have already expressed.

 

[user3673]

Define Hot?

Hot could be any thing above 40c degress. The term hot is open to ones perception.

Leary

And that is the point I am making and in where the danger lies, it law in may come down to what the "reasonable person" believes hot to be, the reasonable person may not be a seasoned brewer but a juror who concludes hot includes boiling liquid and is therefore reasonable for a person to think that using it for boiling liquid is ok

 

[Darren]

Wayne,

I guess what you need to ask as a retailer of such equipment is:

1. Whether you could get a brewery producing beer for consumption of the "general public" approved with your hosing.

2. If you have produced a brewery using this type of hosing, perhaps you should find out what the detrimental effects of consumption of beer made with this hosing is and the legal implications of such.

Food grade hosing is expensive (whether it is any different to the normal fibre woven hosing, I dont know). One thing for sure it does not contain "metal". My investigations say that food grade hosing has a completely different coloured "weaving" which also suggests that all woven tubings are not the same and possibly not food grade.

Finally, I remember you showed me this hosing a few years ago and although it looks tough with the in-woven metal, I clearly also remember telling you it was probably not food grade and that it looks like petrol hose (ie designed not to split and squirt flammable liquid whilst allowing visualisation of fluid transit).

cheers

Darren

 

[pokolbinguy]

WOW...what a thread...the things you miss in a whole day..this site is nuts some times.

Some interesting reading in this though, whether the problem is ultimately from the hose in question, the make up of the hose (e.g. pvc), the materials in the brewery or the brewing technique of the brewer it really pushes home why the pro's use particular materials...e.g. SS pipes etc

I'm not going to add to the argument by pointing fingers at particular parts of the problem brewery but think that this has become a thread that should make others look at what COULD cause problems in their own home brewery. For one I know that silicon hosing would be great in my brewery but considering I have only done 2 AG brews the amount of contact and use of my hoses, fittings and other parts of my brewery are long behind in causing problems compared to my lack of experience (I could be wrong....I am just trying to make a point)....so anyway take out of this as little or as much as you want but each brewery is different.....and thats why we are all hooked on home brew.

Now where is my wallet....I hope its not empty

Pok

P.S at this rate it will be early morning before I get through the days threads

 

[Barley Belly]

I think I may have found the "Smoking Gun"

This hosing is rated food grade to 65 degrees C.

It maybe illegal for sale to be used knowingly/personally recommended otherwise????

I'm no lawyer

Just read the statement for yourself

 

[jonocarroll]

1. Whether you could get a brewery producing beer for consumption of the "general public" approved with your hosing.

I'm sure you mean consumption by the "general public", or are we resorting to eating people now?

Seriously, is this where the thread is heading? How many home breweries (even the fancy pants ones on here) would be producing a product that could be 'approved for general consumption' by Food Standards Australia New Zealand??? I know most of us are fairly tidy, but it's not uncommon to brew in thongs in the shed using a vaguely washed mash paddle.

I could go to many stores - specialty stores - and purchase a product with the intent of using it incorrectly, and by doing so, injure myself. Wayne does a good job of letting people know the pros and cons of equipment, and I doubt he'd be any more liable for the effects of PVC tubing than the person who sells a bottle of coke and doesn't ask if you're going to make a bong out of it, because heating the plastic will give off fumes.

Is this thread done yet?

 

[domonsura]

Wayne,

I guess what you need to ask as a retailer of such equipment is:

1. Whether you could get a brewery producing beer for consumption of the "general public" approved with your hosing.

2. If you have produced a brewery using this type of hosing, perhaps you should find out what the detrimental effects of consumption of beer made with this hosing is and the legal implications of such.

Food grade hosing is expensive (whether it is any different to the normal fibre woven hosing, I dont know). One thing for sure it does not contain "metal". My investigations say that food grade hosing has a completely different coloured "weaving" which also suggests that all woven tubings are not the same and possibly not food grade.

Finally, I remember you showed me this hosing a few years ago and although it looks tough with the in-woven metal, I clearly also remember telling you it was probably not food grade and that it looks like petrol hose (ie designed not to split and squirt flammable liquid whilst allowing visualisation of fluid transit).

cheers

Darren

Hi Darren, "probably not food grade" is an opinion, and although I am aware that you are highly intelligent and a qualified leader in your field, I am not aware of your field being chemical engineering of polymer products, so an opinion it remains.
To be honest, I don't ever recall showing you this hosing, I have never bought a sample to show you any, you have never been to my home, never been to my business premises & never seen one of my breweries in person at all so I'm not sure where you've seen it, but regardless - your opinion in this particular case is incorrect.
The hosing IS food grade as I have stated, as per information provided by both distributor and manufacturer. The wire inside the PVC is stainless steel, which is also food grade, and also completely enclosed in the PVC which would make that a moot point anyway.... I know one thing - I'd much rather be using this than the rubbish with the nylon weaving.
I'm not debating that silicon is the ideal choice when it comes to hot transfer - never have, which is why we will be stocking it soon. I am disputing that the hosing caused the issues the the OP claims it did, and believe that there is more to it.

 

[domonsura]

I think I may have found the "Smoking Gun"



It maybe illegal for sale to be used knowingly/personally recommended otherwise????

I'm no lawyer

Just read the statement for yourself

I dunno, personally I think the latter statement answers the first. Is it legal to provide public advice on legal matters without being qualified? :lol:

(yes, I'm just beng silly now.) Is this thread done yet? I think we've reached the end of the rope. hose.

 

[Darren]

Quantumbrewer,

Perhaps the message is that Wayne should stop selling said hosing unless he feels very confident (with a written guarantee from seller) that it is designed for hot wort tranfer?

cheers

Darren

 

[Bizier]

I am glad I use silicone hoes.

?

 

[PistolPatch]

Been a while since you posted anything Pat...and that one went down well hey? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Batz

LOL! :icon_cheers:

Yeah, this went down really well considering I spent about 3 weeks trying to work out how to create some awareness of this experience without getting anyone in the **** - lol! (I should have given Wayne and Eamon a heads up - sorry guys - confident posting whilst under the influence again.)

Thanks to those that realised my intentions were innocent and/or who posted constructive info.

Anyway, just going to grab my red permanent marker and put a big cross on the bit of my screen where Post New Topic appears.

x
Pat

 

[jonocarroll]

Quantumbrewer,

Perhaps the message is that Wayne should stop selling said hosing unless he feels very confident (with a written guarantee from seller) that it is designed for hot wort tranfer?

I'll support that as soon as you show me the written guarantee that says that an esky is suitable for holding 70*C wet grains for several hours with a hole drilled in the side. And the same for a Crown urn. And brass fittings.

I won't even mention no-chill cubes.

 

[user3673]

Hi Darren, "probably not food grade" is an opinion, and although I am aware that you are highly intelligent and a qualified leader in your field, I am not aware of your field being chemical engineering of polymer products, so an opinion it remains.
To be honest, I don't ever recall showing you this hosing, I have never bought a sample to show you any, you have never been to my home, never been to my business premises & never seen one of my breweries in person at all so I'm not sure where you've seen it, but regardless - your opinion in this particular case is incorrect.
The hosing IS food grade as I have stated, as per information provided by both distributor and manufacturer. The wire inside the PVC is stainless steel, which is also food grade, and also completely enclosed in the PVC which would make that a moot point anyway.... I know one thing - I'd much rather be using this than the rubbish with the nylon weaving.
I'm not debating that silicon is the ideal choice when it comes to hot transfer - never have, which is why we will be stocking it soon. I am disputing that the hosing caused the issues the the OP claims it did, and believe that there is more to it.

My final comment on the matter is that you have said it is food safe at 65 degrees and have the hose on the recirc. arm of your mash tuns which you sell.....what temp is sparge and mashout?

 

[Darren]

I'll support that as soon as you show me the written guarantee that says that an esky is suitable for holding 70*C wet grains for several hours with a hole drilled in the side. And the same for a Crown urn. And brass fittings.

I won't even mention no-chill cubes.

Quantum,

I have been saying that for years. Lets hope down the passage of time we don't see a significant occurence of "increased disease" because of such practice.

cheers

Darren

 

[browndog]

LOL! :icon_cheers:

Yeah, this went down really well considering I spent about 3 weeks trying to work out how to create some awareness of this experience without getting anyone in the **** - lol! (I should have given Wayne and Eamon a heads up - sorry guys - confident posting whilst under the influence again.)

Thanks to those that realised my intentions were innocent and/or who posted constructive info.

Anyway, just going to grab my red permanent marker and put a big cross on the bit of my screen where Post New Topic appears.

x
Pat

I wouldn't worry too much Pat, there is some major pissing contests going on here mate and none of it can change the fact that when he changed the hose the problem went away. As for those that claim the hose may have been the source of an infection that may have been the cause, they have obviously never done a no-chill.

cheers

Browndog