High Temperature Hose Selection - Be Careful!

[muckey]

All is well. I don't think this thread was really warranted from the start.

PP does seem to like to stir up discussions though.

:lol:

 

[3G]

What is the hose in question? Clear with steel wire reinforcing? Is there some technical specs. so this issue can be put to bed.

 

[Fatgodzilla]

PP does seem to like to stir up discussions though.

:lol:

I must jump in here and defend PP .. from my reading of his threads, he really has been very forthright. He stated the problem, stated the solution found and made a statement that people should check that the hoses we use should be scrutinized and replaced if found wanting.

now the OP made the claim re the rating of the pvc hose and in fairness the hose isn't rated for the temp of hot wort so its a case of use at your own risk, but not enough to start attacking each other over

This was a good statement Muckey, sadly its gonna be ignored, but I'm with you here brother.

 

[jonocarroll]

You have answered your own question.The hose was replaced due to the taste.It was replaced with another new piece of the same hose type from the same place..And guess what the taste came back.Your next analogy?

Wait! I didn't see that earlier - that's a step forward in the process of elimination. It was replaced with more of the same type of hose and did the same thing over a short period of time? And it didn't do it to silicone hose? Then that would indeed suggest that the PVC hose itself is one part of the problem.

Question is: Is it inherently the PVC (in which case your warning is valid, although this seems quite unlikely since so many other people are not having issue) or is it just that silicone hose is invulnerable to whatever is causing the issue - be that cleaning/sanitising or procedure?

Yes, I'm being technical in my method, but I seem to be one of the few people actually trying to figure out the why issue is happening rather than putting fingers in ears and ignoring the cause, or just adding back-and-forth about who uses what type of hose. Or was this just another thread where someone has posted a description of a problem that they didn't understand, didn't particularly want fixed, but want everyone to take as gospel?

 

[Leigh]

Wait! I didn't see that earlier - that's a step forward in the process of elimination. It was replaced with more of the same type of hose and did the same thing over a short period of time? And it didn't do it to silicone hose? Then that would indeed suggest that the PVC hose itself is one part of the problem.

Question is: Is it inherently the PVC (in which case your warning is valid, although this seems quite unlikely since so many other people are not having issue) or is it just that silicone hose is invulnerable to whatever is causing the issue - be that cleaning/sanitising or procedure?

Yes, I'm being technical in my method, but I seem to be one of the few people actually trying to figure out the why issue is happening rather than putting fingers in ears and ignoring the cause, or just adding back-and-forth about who uses what type of hose. Or was this just another thread where someone has posted a description of a problem that they didn't understand, didn't particularly want fixed, but want everyone to take as gospel?

Was just about to state the same QB, but won't waste my time typing it as you did a good job.

 

[jonocarroll]

now the OP made the claim re the rating of the pvc hose and in fairness the hose isn't rated for the temp of hot wort so its a case of use at your own risk, but not enough to start attacking each other over

This was a good statement Muckey, sadly its gonna be ignored, but I'm with you here brother.

Can someone just clarify this for me... 'rated' is being bandied about, and I'm not entirely clear on the meaning in this context...

It may have been stated already, but under what specification is this hose 'rated'?

Does that mean 'rated as food safe for T < 65*C'... or 'rated as stable against collapse for T < 65*C'... or 'rated as will keep all properties constant for T < 65*C'?

 

[eamonnfoley]

Replacing a bad-smelling/looking PVC hose with new silicon hose and saying the problem is fixed, and the cause was PVC is exactly why I made the analogy above. Only if you put silicon on and had no issues, then put PVC back on and reproduced the issue could you say that the PVC was (at least a clue to) the problem. At this stage, it was the manky piece of PVC that was the problem, because swapping that out gave better results (if it did indeed).

Once again people: I'm just trying to distance this result from a cause-effect relation, since I don't think it's necessary to blame the PVC at this stage, much less warm people off it when they are having no issues.

Quantumbrewer I don't know why you are trying to twist people's words, or what your trying to achieve.

I changed quite a few items in my brewery over time - as you do when trying to solve a problem, each time returning more or less the same result. Then I changed ONE item for the latest batch - used a silicon hose for transfer to the cube, and the problem disappeared completely in the resulting beer. The reason the link is being made to the helical PVC hose and the problem, is because

A - replacing it solved the problem immediately
B - their technical specification has them rated to 65C food grade, indicating the potential for compounds to leech into the beer. The symptoms reflected this.

This may not be 100% conclusive, but it is enough for me and a few others I'm sure. If others are happy with the hose, keep using it. But I choose not to, mainly because of point B. As Gryphon suggested, why don't you see what Pirtek says about it.

Or do we need to get CSI in?

 

[Screwtop]

I think I have it. If the hose is the type with helically wound wire moulded into it and it is being used near to an RF source of sufficient output then the device could have the potential to behave as a Plasma Reactor due to induced FR, if the wort provided a suitable nutrient mix then elemental selenium may be precipitated and removed from the wort. If under high temperatures Selenium Dioxide was produced it could give off irritating or toxic fumes.

So there that puts this one off situation to bed :lol:


Screwy

I suggest you ring Pirtek the supplier and ask them about its use in above 65C applications.
See what they say.
GB

EDIT: Just called Pirtek they say they only have Rubber and Thermoplastic hoses, nothing in wire coiled PVC????

Just tried their site too, can't see it there Pirtek Catalog

 

[jonocarroll]

Quantumbrewer I don't know why you are trying to twist people's words, or what your trying to achieve.

I'm not trying to twist anyone's words. If I have a problem with my brewery, I'm not happy to just fix it with dumb luck by swapping something out - I want to know what went wrong. While you seem quite convinced that it's got nothing to do with any chemicals or faults, and that PVC is the utimate cause, not just the proximate cause, I'm not so convinced since so many other people seem unable to reproduce your result.

If you are quite happy to leave it as 'problem solved - I'll worry about it if and when it ever comes up again' then so be it, end the thread. If you actually want to know why it happened, and whether or not it's likely to happen again... ah, stuff it. Find someone else to help. I'll leave with this comic;

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

Here is a typical case of Brewing CSI.One very hot day while watering the garden by hose I decided to have a drink from that hose.Yes you guessed it , that water tasted like plastic.I dont use that hose to fill my hot liquor tank any more.This resulted in a much better cleaner beer profile.
For those who doubt what affect a inappropriate rated hose can have on the taste, cut off a small 50mm piece boil it for a few minutes in a 250ml of water, wait for it to cool and have a taste.You will be surprised or in my case not surprised.
GB

 

[Screwtop]

Here is a typical case of Brewing CSI.One very hot day while watering the garden by hose I decided to have a drink from that hose.Yes you guessed it , that water tasted like plastic.I dont use that hose to fill my hot liquor tank any more.This resulted in a much better cleaner beer profile.
For those who doubt what affect a inappropriate rated hose can have on the taste, cut off a small 50mm piece boil it for a few minutes in a 250ml of water, wait for it to cool and have a taste.You will be surprised or in my case not surprised.
GB

NO SHIT _ SHERLOCK :lol:

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

NO SHIT _ SHERLOCK :lol:

You should take up skydiving as being funny is not your forte.Im trying to help here and some clown turns up. Go and bother some one else.
GB

 

[muckey]

Can someone just clarify this for me... 'rated' is being bandied about, and I'm not entirely clear on the meaning in this context...

a lot of food grade pvc hose is only rated as being capable of use with liquids of 65 degress C or less without the plastic breaking down. No guarantees of what will happen if you put boiling wort through it.

starting to wonder if I need to rethink my hose

 

[muckey]

I think I have it. If the hose is the type with helically wound wire moulded into it and it is being used near to an RF source of sufficient output then the device could have the potential to behave as a Plasma Reactor due to induced FR, if the wort provided a suitable nutrient mix then elemental selenium may be precipitated and removed from the wort. If under high temperatures Selenium Dioxide was produced it could give off irritating or toxic fumes.

So there that puts this one off situation to bed :lol:


Screwy



EDIT: Just called Pirtek they say they only have Rubber and Thermoplastic hoses, nothing in wire coiled PVC????

Just tried their site too, can't see it there Pirtek Catalog

you've been standing too close to a flux capacitor again I suppose :blink:

 

[Screwtop]

you've been standing too close to a flux capacitor again I suppose :blink:

Fluk, is that what you call that shiny thing the beer comes out of ? :lol:

 

[THE DRUNK ARAB]

Wait! I didn't see that earlier - that's a step forward in the process of elimination. It was replaced with more of the same type of hose and did the same thing over a short period of time? And it didn't do it to silicone hose? Then that would indeed suggest that the PVC hose itself is one part of the problem.

Question is: Is it inherently the PVC (in which case your warning is valid, although this seems quite unlikely since so many other people are not having issue) or is it just that silicone hose is invulnerable to whatever is causing the issue - be that cleaning/sanitising or procedure?

Yes, I'm being technical in my method, but I seem to be one of the few people actually trying to figure out the why issue is happening rather than putting fingers in ears and ignoring the cause, or just adding back-and-forth about who uses what type of hose. Or was this just another thread where someone has posted a description of a problem that they didn't understand, didn't particularly want fixed, but want everyone to take as gospel?

 

[Leigh]

Here is a typical case of Brewing CSI.One very hot day while watering the garden by hose I decided to have a drink from that hose.Yes you guessed it , that water tasted like plastic.I dont use that hose to fill my hot liquor tank any more.This resulted in a much better cleaner beer profile.
For those who doubt what affect a inappropriate rated hose can have on the taste, cut off a small 50mm piece boil it for a few minutes in a 250ml of water, wait for it to cool and have a taste.You will be surprised or in my case not surprised.
GB

OK, So are you trying to tell us two new pieces of information...one he left the PVC tube out in the sun and it suffered UV degradation (I assume your garden hose WAS FOOD GRADE), two he was boiling his wort in the PVC tube while he drained into the cube...

Sorry, but your ability to make a scientific link is wrong. Firstly I can guarantee the chemical makeup of the two hoses are different, second it is impossible for him to be running 100 degree C water through his hose...funny things happen in solvents (yes water is a solvent) at their phase change temperatures. Funny how you always throw stones at the particular retailer involved. You wouldn't happen to be the "unamed" brewer in the OP that tried to help but couldn't?

As with the "no-chill" debate, people with no-idea have come to the wrong conclusion and sold it to others...not saying no-chill doesn't work, but the mechanism is wrong!

I ask for one last time...and this is for Foles, not some other idiot who thinks they know...how did you sanitise the PVC tube?

 

[eamonnfoley]

I ask for one last time...and this is for Foles, not some other idiot who thinks they know...how did you sanitise the PVC tube?

I mentioned it in a previous post - sodium percarbonate (if my memory serves me correctly) and tap water.

 

[Fatgodzilla]

Here is a typical case of Brewing CSI.

Always preferred NCIS .. Pauly Perrette .......eeeerrrrr :icon_drool2:

​

Matter been referred to American script writers. Show should feature next summer. Sent them Screwy's synopsis

If the hose is the type with helically wound wire moulded into it and it is being used near to an RF source of sufficient output then the device could have the potential to behave as a Plasma Reactor due to induced FR, if the wort provided a suitable nutrient mix then elemental selenium may be precipitated and removed from the wort. If under high temperatures Selenium Dioxide was produced it could give off irritating or toxic fumes.

They will work that into a decent plot line and throw in a dead marine or two.

Time we put this quarrel to bed yet ?

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

a lot of food grade pvc hose is only rated as being capable of use with liquids of 65 degress C or less without the plastic breaking down. No guarantees of what will happen if you put boiling wort through it.

starting to wonder if I need to rethink my hose

I believe that was the point of PP,s thread.
GB