Has Robobrew overtaken Grainfather for product price point?

[SBOB]

I just finished rebuilding my brewery today.

Not a thread and only on topic because I've left a spot in the corner for a GF/RB
[emoji39]

ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1483781863.624949.jpg

Well, to be accurate, I've probably left room for a GF as I don't think the RB has taken over

needs more keg storage ... and probably another fridge

 

[welly2]

The process might be the same, but the brewer is not the same. You've let a machine take command of important parts - eg. maintaining mash temperature. You also make no mention of your knowledge of the design of the system, What, for example, was that particular diameter/height ratio chosen for the Grainfather. Its important because optimal mash tun ratios are different to boil kettle ratios, and single vessel systems combine both. People who have built their own systems have had to wrestle with these issues, made decisions, make mistakes and learned. Do you know? Perhaps you don't care (and that's OK - I don't know why the engineers at Toyota chose the particular compression ratio for my Camry. But I don't pretend to be Stirling Moss). A craftsman cares about his equipment as much as his recipe and processes.

The point I'm making is that craftmanship in brewing, like anything else, is about what you as a person bring to it. It is in your attitude and your ethics, the sense of value you place in living your life on your terms (not living the life someone you don't know has programmed for you). As I said earlier its a sliding scale. To pursue craftmanship to its ultimate ends we would all be growing our own barley and capturing wild yeast. But I just think it is important the brewing process retains as much of its craft base as it once did when we brewed our beer after boiling our socks in the laundry copper.

None of this is important. What so ever. If it was then a brewer moving from one system to another would need to build each system to make good beer. Your brewing rig is incidental as much as a guitarist doesn't need to know how to make a guitar to be a great guitarist.

Seriously, did you manufacture your own mash tun or your own boil kettle to your exact specification so you knew the mash tun ratios and boil kettle ratios?

I bet you didn't. I bet you picked a pot off the shelf that suited your volume requirements and adjusted your processes to suit. As we all do. Absolutely nothing you speak of has any impact on the brewing process. We adjust our processes to suit our equipment.

 

[LAGERFRENZY]

Although Brian May (with the help of his Dad) did build the guitar that he played on all but one of Queen's tracks. Everything else you say is quite correct though

 

[Benn]

Crazy little thing called love, no red special there.









Mash tun

 

[LAGERFRENZY]

Yes that's the one - the *******s all ganged up and forced him to play a Telecaster. How very dare they!

 

[Brownsworthy]

It was actually a fender esquire in the recording he used a tele for live performances.

 

[LAGERFRENZY]

I don't think it would have mattered what guitar he played - he was so clean and melodic that it would have sounded just as good on an ES 339, a Jazzmaster, a Strat or whatever.

 

[malt junkie]

None of this is important. What so ever. If it was then a brewer moving from one system to another would need to build each system to make good beer. Your brewing rig is incidental as much as a guitarist doesn't need to know how to make a guitar to be a great guitarist. Ah but he has to know how to play, a guitar well and learn to do so, before he ever becomes great. Building your own system forces you to learn the brewing process, I believe that was the point being made.

Seriously, did you manufacture your own mash tun or your own boil kettle to your exact specification so you knew the mash tun ratios and boil kettle ratios? Yes and the watt density of the elements. And chose an appropriate pump for flow rates and head.

I bet you didn't. I bet you picked a pot off the shelf that suited your volume requirements and adjusted your processes to suit. As we all do. Absolutely nothing you speak of has any impact on the brewing process. We adjust our processes to suit our equipment. How do you adjust a process you don't understand except badly, and even from that you will learn something.

Back on topic, if the GF came out with a 60L odd batch size I'd be all over it. They won't because a standard single circuit can only provide 10 amps or 2400w of power (I learnt that while building numerous brew rigs)

MJ

ED: AHB formatting playing silly buggers

 

[wide eyed and legless]

I like the analogy of the Huawei and the Apple i phone, both do the same basic things but one is half price to the other, I have found KK to be accommodating with any issues I have had. But looking at the perspective of the Grainfather $1125 retail, equates to around about $500 wholesale, taking into account GST and delivery. The $500 dollar the wholesaler charges will end up around about $200 to $230 cost to the wholesaler from the manufacturer so between the two appliances the difference in manufacturing price is minimal, without comparing them I couldn't say where the differences might be. But in the Australian market, price always seems to be a key aspect, that's why I believe Robobrew will outsell Grainfather in Australia which is only a small market anyway.
As for non certification of electrical goods it only costs about $800 or $900 and they would be pretty stupid not to get a tick of approval,and if they have been selling goods without SAA certification then they should be reported to the ACCC.

 

[SBOB]

I like the analogy of the Huawei and the Apple i phone, both do the same basic things but one is half price to the other, I have found KK to be accommodating with any issues I have had. But looking at the perspective of the Grainfather $1125 retail, equates to around about $500 wholesale, taking into account GST and delivery.

you're assuming retailers are paying ~$500 cost price for a grainfather?
I'm gonna go with a nope on that, based on the lack of discounting we see on it (from anyone)

 

[Bridges]

you're assuming retailers are paying ~$500 cost price for a grainfather?
I'm gonna go with a nope on that, based on the lack of discounting we see on it (from anyone)

Why would any retailer discount it? As far as I can see they are still selling well not that I am saying there is any collusion or anything going on just that whilst they are still selling well no one would be tempted to drop the price.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Any retailer not marking up a minimum of 100% is a retailer destined to go under.

 

[BKBrews]

I already own a grainfather, I'm just here to say Feldon has lost the plot

 

[mtb]

I already own a grainfather, I'm just here to say Feldon has lost the plot

Not without our lack of trying in finding it for him..

 

[TwoCrows]

This is Australia , retail outlets mark up 300% as a norm.

Then give a discount, more discount, then discontinue. New stock.

 

[LAGERFRENZY]

Not without our lack of trying in finding it for him..

Respec on da man's birfday y'all!

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/3528-birthday-drinks/page-213#entry1428786

 

[SBOB]

Any retailer not marking up a minimum of 100% is a retailer destined to go under.

on every product in their store?

Man, based on my retail background then, there isnt a single electrical retailer in this country that shouldnt have gone under by now.

 

[SBOB]

Why would any retailer discount it? As far as I can see they are still selling well not that I am saying there is any collusion or anything going on just that whilst they are still selling well no one would be tempted to drop the price.

You would expect to see at least one or two of the online brew stores selling them cheaper to win business

Based on WEAL's markup calculations, with >$600 profit on the new one at RRP, being able to sell more of them with (for example) $400 profit when no one else is discounting would be a pretty simple way to increase turnover and overall profits

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Having been on both sides of the fence I do know how it works, different to white goods if that is what you are selling. Everything would need 100% mark up, it is the Chinese mentality that if they make it cheaper they will sell more, all that does is cause a price war then the only ones making any money are the manufacturer / wholesaler and in the end the item isn't worth stocking because there is no profit in it.
Also Grainfather would have to get more items in its armory to stay viable, so maybe they will have to come up with bigger capacity models, just relying on one item, even though they are in Europe and USA will not be enough.

 

[LAGERFRENZY]

In order to outsell the Grainfather Keg King would need to have Robobrews in roughly as many strategic outlets as those currently stocking Grainfathers. Now the Grainfather distribution model is an established and mature one. They have developed a very harmonious relationship with retailers and have been very cooperative with returns, spares and warranty claims. They have reps on the ground in all States and Territories who support retailers with brewing demos and product information days.

I am not saying that it would be impossible for the Robobrew folks to match that but they would need to be getting a finger out to start doing it. This is another reason as to why the $1200 Apple smart phone continues to outsell the $600 Huawei, not just because of the better finish of the product and reputation of the brand.