Has Robobrew overtaken Grainfather for product price point?

[TwoCrows]

Apple is Apple. It is an accessory as much as it is a phone. That's is one reason why it sells. What is the mark up on an IPhone?

Not all products are 300% mark up , some are 400-500%. Some are not.

Australia is a country that trades with "what the market will bear" attitude to sales. Forced taxes and trade incentives. Companies sell at what customers are willing to pay.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Agree with you LAGERFRENZY but does KK and Robobrew have to go into direct competition with Grainfather the answer is no, KK have a whole shitload of brewing components Robobrew is a small part of their operation whereas Grainfather is one out and competing in a small market. I would like to think that ours( homebrew ) was a rapidly expanding market but in truth it is not. All to common to see HBS closing down, a enthusiastic homebrewer opens up a HBS because he is being led by his heart not his head.
As for Apple iphones the last i read about the cost to produce one was 60 cents if they could get the robots to perform.

 

[SBOB]

As for Apple iphones the last i read about the cost to produce assemble one was 60 cents if they could get the robots to perform.

assembling for a few cents is more likely
Apple still has to buy the chips, batteries, screens etc from other suppliers

 

[manticle]

Grainfather is one product from a stable WEAL. Mangrove jacks range, whole bunch of distilling related gizmos, etc.

 

[Brownsworthy]

Any retailer not marking up a minimum of 100% is a retailer destined to go under.

I once managed a crown dealership for Husqvarna and Honda power equipment and the mark ups were definitely not 100%. You can't sell stuff for more than the advertised rrp. Replacement parts and consumables is a different story but when dealing with the someone like Honda, with their power equipment, mark up is sometimes only 35-40%.

 

[Benn]

I'm loving this thread.
R.I.P Freddy








Hot liquor tank

 

[welly2]

I bet you didn't. I bet you picked a pot off the shelf that suited your volume requirements and adjusted your processes to suit. As we all do. Absolutely nothing you speak of has any impact on the brewing process. We adjust our processes to suit our equipment.

How do you adjust a process you don't understand except badly, and even from that you will learn something.

What are you talking about a process I don't understand except badly? I've run almost 30 batches through my grainfather this year. I think I know this system inside and out. And I still couldn't tell you the height/width ratio. But I'm still getting 80+% efficiency every batch.

 

[welly2]

No, that's silly (and you know it is).

You more than others should know what I mean by craftmanship, as I take it from previos posts you have spent many years in professional kitchens. There you would have seen craftmanship at work - they are called chefs. Do properly trained chefs measure out the quantities they need for a recipe? Not always, and for some dishes never. They know by sight, taste, smell, touch or sound how much to add - how much vinegar to add to the mayonaise, how much salt to season the broth etc. They are craftsmen. They have learned their craft from their master as an apprentice, and testing themselves time and time again until they got it right. For a hundred common dishes they don't need recipe books. They know how ingredients perform together. The same goes for the application of heat. A recipe might say "cook on a medium heat for 5 minutes". A chef will just cook it till its right, using his senses to inform his memory.

Compare properly trained chefs to the recipe-following cooks who have no idea why a certain volume or weight on an ingredient is needed, or why 5 minutes instead of 4:30 seconds - just measure it all out and blindly follow the recipe. They may still produce a "good" product. But one is made by a chef and one by a cook.

Some beers are made by craftsmen, some beer, perhaps as good, is just made.

I'm struggling to see how your analogy has anything to do with building a system. If nothing else, you've undone your argument and described exactly what a craftsman brewer is doing - making a beer from their experience and knowledge of the craft rather than following recipes. This has nothing to do with being able to fabricate a mash tun in the same way a chef doesn't need to be able to make his own knives to be a properly trained chef. Do properly trained chefs need to an expert bladesmith to make an excellent pie? Of course not.

 

[Zorco]

While OT and the new soul of this thread, I'd like to add in with my view.

Knowing the hardware matters. Brewing is process engineering and mechanical engineering. Those engineers are taught to fabricate equipment and systems and the practical experience in doing so ensures they understand the first principles of the systems.

Understanding the science, exploring the brewing process and building your own brew rig to do so are well regarded steps to becoming the accomplished Brewer.

And to qualify 'accomplished', I mean brewing within the framework of complete scalability - of any brewery size.

And I'm happy to point out that this might be the dividing path for people here. Grainfather and brewmeister owners, whom have never built a brewery are going to make great beers - but I would assert that none of them would become head Brewers at commercial scale. And that's not a criticism by any means. People don't want that outcome.

I reckon people who delve into making their own brewery ultimately have that as an option though, depending on luck, dedication and education.

My grandfather was a butcher and taught me basic metallurgy. My mate has left electrical engineering to do medicine and will always understand the first principles of his equipment and systems. One of the Brisbane Brewers here is a top machinist and is skilled to the nines but chooses to use a braumeister. To me, truly skilled craftsmen know their equipment intimately and can make stuff.

People can craft great things without all knowledge. If that craftsman doesn't know every detail, then he/she relies on someone else.

It is clear as day to me that these all in one brew systems are simplifying brewing and therefore their new owners may be relying on others to enable their craft more than people who have designed and built a rig themselves.

But I think it is awesome that all grain brewing is becoming so accessible to more and more people.

As manticle and others have mentioned, we are only really discussing the wort making phase.... there is so much more to get right to make great beer.

I don't think robobrew has taken over.[emoji41]

 

[bwhouse]

Knowing the hardware matters. Brewing is process engineering and mechanical engineering. Those engineers are taught to fabricate equipment and systems and the practical experience in doing so ensures they understand the first principles of the systems.

Understanding the science, exploring the brewing process and building your own brew rig to do so are well regarded steps to becoming the accomplished Brewer.

And to qualify 'accomplished', I mean brewing within the framework of complete scalability - of any brewery size.

And I'm happy to point out that this might be the dividing path for people here. Grainfather and brewmeister owners, whom have never built a brewery are going to make great beers - but I would assert that none of them would become head Brewers at commercial scale. And that's not a criticism by any means. People don't want that outcome.

I reckon people who delve into making their own brewery ultimately have that as an option though, depending on luck, dedication and education.

If I understand correctly you are basically referring to the brewing science and gaining a real understanding as to why breweries are designed how they are and why smaller 3v, 2v or 1v are designed how they are. So I think we are confusing the desire to learn and the need to learn.

Whilst building a brewery, you are often forced to learn this science as you have to make design choices (although I would challenge this as most builds I have seen these days are just a copy of someone else build), for many people 'doing' is a great way to learn and they will ultimately come out with a great foundation of knowledge. But it is important to understand that is just one way of learning, I honestly believe that you can learn all of that brewing science and engineering by reading and understanding. So someone who buys a GF, RB or BM has just the same ability to learn if they so desire.

Yes this new technology allows you to brew great beer with out learning that foundational science behind brewing, but it is dangerous to generalize and assume that all people who buy an off the self system and invest in new technology are in this camp and dont spend the time and energy still understanding why the system is designed how it is.

 

[woodwormm]

I've only used my robo once . But for the price Love it.

I spent 40 minutes pawing over a GF in the shop and couldn't see where over 1k goes. Have also spenta lot of time ogling the Brau and again can't see the dollars.

I bought the robo sight unseen and it's great for the dollars. If it dies inside 12 months I have a warranty. If it dies after that I'm in front anyway as beer I like to buy is 70-80 bucks per ctn and every time I do a brew I make 2 ctns for less than 50. Doesn't take long for this bit of kit to pay for itself.

I've built a single vessel system that I morphed into a 2 1/2 and I've always had cars and motorbikes as hobbies. I get the building it ideas but with work and young kids this thing gets me brewing again.

Oh and yes they've gotten rid of the cake rack but the New system is not easy either . Makes it difficult th get malt pipe in/out . The bracket in mine dislodged first use and I went straight for the Ikea cake stand . I won't put the original back in.

 

[Zorco]

All good points and agree mate.

If I can only add this: learning the engineering requires doing for that person to have really learnt it. If I had to shine a light on one point then that is probably it.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Grainfather is one product from a stable WEAL. Mangrove jacks range, whole bunch of distilling related gizmos, etc.

As I haven't had much interest in Grainfather I wasn't aware of this, thanks for pointing that out manticle

I once managed a crown dealership for Husqvarna and Honda power equipment and the mark ups were definitely not 100%. You can't sell stuff for more than the advertised rrp. Replacement parts and consumables is a different story but when dealing with the someone like Honda, with their power equipment, mark up is sometimes only 35-40%.

That could be a similar situation to a white goods retailer the mark up is low but the annual kick back makes up for it,every product I sold as a wholesaler was always marked up over the 100% quite often a lot more from shampoo to evaporative coolers. There are people on here who I have provided with flow valves for the cost of postage they cost me 42 cents go into a hydroponic shop they are $27 everything is worth what people are prepared to pay.
That is what I thought this thread was about, what you get for the money, if there are 2 products similar with a great difference in retail price one should ask why, after the years I spent sourcing products in China and knowing how much things really cost before they come down the chain to the consumer I absolutely now hate paying full price for anything, that is why I wanted to know what others are paying for gas and electricty, and our freezer is chockers with legs of lamb, pork, chickens and the occasional piece of blade beef all bought from Safeway, the day before the use by date they mark it down to cost,50% off so the meat we buy at the supermarket also has a 100% mark up.

 

[TwoCrows]

The Robobrew range Youtube upload 11-1-2017







Also interesting is what is in the background ................. Conical fermenter???

 

[peekaboo_jones]

Yes they now have a machine to make conical fermenters too.
For single infusion mashing, I still say the pick of the robobrew's is the updated one without the pump.
Bigger malt pipe capacity and simple machinery.
I've got the oldest one but will be getting the bigger malt pipe soon.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

I went and had a look at the Robobrew and definitely can't see where the $530 difference in price comes in against the Grainfather.
Also Guten Kitchen Appliances which was on the link posted earlier, I inquired after their 50 liter Robobrew look alike with a step mash system. But the 50 liter is presently under manufacture they offered me a 40 liter with pump and step mash program which gives a 30 liter into fermenter for $233 (USD) for one, and $139 each for a couple of hundred.
I will stick with my Braumeister for now but will get a 50 liter Guten when it becomes available.
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=guten+kitchen+equipment&espv=2&biw=1280&bih=593&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiVvZLMj7zRAhUMe7wKHVObBsAQsAQIGQ

 

[Batz]

I will stick with my Braumeister for now but will get a 50 liter Guten when it becomes available.
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=guten+kitchen+equipment&espv=2&biw=1280&bih=593&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiVvZLMj7zRAhUMe7wKHVObBsAQsAQIGQ

There ya go.

 

[kirem]

I am also waiting on the 50L Guten.

 

[crowmanz]

Also Guten Kitchen Appliances which was on the link posted earlier, I inquired after their 50 liter Robobrew look alike with a step mash system. But the 50 liter is presently under manufacture they offered me a 40 liter with pump and step mash program which gives a 30 liter into fermenter for $233 (USD) for one, and $139 each for a couple of hundred.
I will stick with my Braumeister for now but will get a 50 liter Guten when it becomes available.

They give any indication of when the 50L will be ready?

 

[wide eyed and legless]

I did ask, but among the questions asked that is one she did not reply to, I will give her a reminder, maybe they are trying to unload their stock of 40 liter models, if they will come down with their price for the 40 L as a clearance I may go for it, will allow me to do the same volume but a heavier beer.
There is another company where the models go to 60 liter might be worth dropping them a line.