Getting chocolate into a choc porter

[mosto]

Just after some advice on tweaking my Porter recipe. In my kits and bits days, I made a really nice Porter with the following recipe:

1.7kg Cascade Chocolate Mahogany Porter tin
1kg Amber DME
200g Chocolate grain
10g Northern Brewer @ 10 min
WLP005 British Ale yeast

This had a lovely caramel/chocolate flavour with a hint of coffee.


I'm currently drinking my first AG Porter and was trying to replicate these flavours. I came up with the following recipe:

Parkes Road Porter (Brown Porter)

Original Gravity (OG): 1.049 (°P): 12.1
Final Gravity (FG): 1.012 (°P): 3.1
Alcohol (ABV): 4.81 %
Colour (SRM): 27.7 (EBC): 54.5
Bitterness (IBU): 26.6 (Average - No Chill Adjusted)

76.09% Maris Otter Malt
10.87% Brown Malt
6.52% Caramunich I
6.52% Chocolate

0.8 g/L Northdown (8.1% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil)
1 g/L Northdown (8.1% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Boil)

10.0 g/L Whirlfloc Tablet @ 15 Minutes (Boil)

Single step Infusion at 68°C for 60 Minutes. Boil for 60 Minutes

Fermented at 18°C with Wyeast 1275 - Thames Valley Ale


Recipe Generated with BrewMate

While this is a lovely drop which I'm really enjoying, the coffee flavour is dominant and I don't get the caramel/chocolate I did with the kit brew.

What can I reduce/delete to wind the coffee back a touch, and what can I add/increase to bring through the caramel/chocolate flavour.

 

[SJW]

Dont know anything about kits, but getting choc into an AG brew, the best thing I found is go to a health food shop and buy a bag of Cacao nibs. There the raw ingredients of chocolate. Dont taste much like choc but it does add that choc hit to beer. Dont bother with all that dark chocolate that says 70% or 80% cacao I did not like it.
But you asked so expect a thousand different responses.

Steve

 

[sp0rk]

I used cacao nibs crushed and toasted, throw them in 10 minutes before flame out
100g is what I usually use

 

[mxd]

From the recipe I would thought you would have a good choc flavor, what brown did you use ?

possably drop the brown down a bit to lower the coffer type flavour

 

[mosto]

From the recipe I would thought you would have a good choc flavor, what brown did you use ?

possably drop the brown down a bit to lower the coffer type flavour

I get most of my ingredients from The Country Brewer and the spec malts I think are repackaged into their own bags so not sure of manufacturer. Thinking maybe wind back the Brown malt a tad and replace with some cacao.

 

[Phoney]

100g of Cocoa powder. Nibs are good too but a bit more hassle.

 

[O'Henry]

Do you have any commercial porters you like so we have a better idea of the flavour you are after?

I think Pale Choc malt at around the same level as choc would help, drop the brown and marris down a few % to cover it.

 

[manticle]

Choc malt can throw coffee flavours so maybe drop that a touch and use cacao nibs as suggested.

 

[1974Alby]

IVe used 250g cocoa powder @ 5 min very successfully....I then got carried away and tried 375g in the next batch. Definately too much...less is more methinks.

makes a mess in the fermentor and needs to be racked to secondary to get the beer off the snotty choclate goop that forms in the primary!

 

[Tex083]

I recenntly brewed a Porter with Dark Crystal (140 EBC) and 5% Black Patent malt, made first taste is very much dark chocolate not the aim but was good.
I think Chocolate malt is named wrong. I listened to a Beersmith podcast which refers to chocloate malt as burnt coffee flavour and NOT the chocolate that most people are trying to achieve when adding it to a beer.
I know in my 1st porter I was guilty of that, Chocolate malt sounds nice like Naked Golden Oats sounds amazing and I like them, choc malt use with care.

 

[MartinOC]

This may sound a bit out of the box, but keep your choc. malt exactly as-is, but instead of trying to add MORE chocolate flavourings, try adding some Amber malt to the recipe instead (or just substitute it for the Caramunich)

You might be pleasantly surprised.....

 

[manticle]

I'm with Martin in principle. No experience with amber malt but choc malt works best in combination with other ingredients. On its own it is roasty with a bitter, black coffee character. Combine roast and bitterness (as cacao beans also have) with milk and sweetness for example (eg. Lactose and crystal malt) and you have milk chocolate. Chocolate malt isn't quik or milo but it can be used to get the flavours you want. Cacao bean on its own is not a Cadbury block.

 

[gazzagahan]

I tried infusing 100g cocoa nips in vodka for 7 days and tipping that into the fermenter a week out from bottling. Very subtle chocolate flavour in the mix but definitely adds to the overall taste,

 

[manticle]

Try toasting the nibs first.

 

[Blind Dog]

I'm assuming chocolate malt referred to the colour not the flavour. I've found about 2% or so roasted wheat adds a nice malty chocolate flavour, as does black patent. Chocolate malt for me is only used to add colour as I find the flavour above 20g or so in 20l tastes like stewed coffee

 

[MartinOC]

No, check your taste-buds mate.

Chocolate malt is named as such for that precise reason.

Used in excess, it gets harsh, but it's definitely chocolate.

Subtlety in it's use is the key....

 

[mje1980]

I love choc but I I've always got coffee flavours IMHO. Though in the few commercial beers with actual chocolate I've struggled to pick that up too.

 

[Spiesy]

No, check your taste-buds mate.

Chocolate malt is named as such for that precise reason.

Used in excess, it gets harsh, but it's definitely chocolate.

Subtlety in it's use is the key....

I was under the same impression and have read this a number of times.
I.e. Chocolate is named as such due to its appearance, not flavour.

Eating the grain raw, it just tastes like a backed off Roast Barley. Not as astringent, but still a bit ashy.

 

[RobB]

I find that I get a touch of chocolate by using the dehusked carafa malts in combination with dark munich. Say 5% Carafa Special 1 and 15% Munich 2. Getting rid of that blackened husk really tones down the coffee flavour. And while 11% brown malt is fine in a porter, it will tend to dominate with a dry toasty flavour which is also a bit coffee-like. Try something around the 5% mark if you want to leave it in.

 

[mr_wibble]

So is there a consensus on Toasted Cacao Nibs Vs (supermarket) Cocoa Powder ?

Summarising the above, it seems:
100grams of toasted cacao nibs is OK
Up to 250 grams of cocoa powder is OK

But that’s a big difference in amount.

Do the oils in cacao nibs make a difference ?
Cocoa powder is cacao beans, roasted, ground, de-oiled ("Dutch Processed").
(And if you buy the Cadbury product - with added flavourings; ugh.)