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Help me fix this recipe in BYO magazine...

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Muz

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OK so this title is slightly clickbaity, but I seriously would like some thoughts on what people would do to modify this recipe.

I was attracted this this one in the most recent BYO magazine (which I subscribe to online):


The recipe is as follows:

(5 gallons/19 L, all-grain)
OG = 1.102 FG = 1.026
IBU = 30 SRM = 60 ABV = 11.4%

Ingredients
12 lbs. (5.4 kg) American 2-row pale malt
2.5 lbs. (1.1 kg) malted oats
2.5 lbs. (1.1 kg) Weyermann Caramunich® III malt
12 oz. (0.34 kg) chocolate malt
12 oz. (0.34 kg) Briess Midnight Wheat malt
8 oz. (0.23 kg) roasted barley
1 lb. (0.45 kg) lactose
8 AAU Magnum hops (60 min.) (0.5 oz./14 g at 16% alpha acids)
Wyeast 1968 (London ESB), White Labs WLP002 (English Ale), or LalBrew London English-Style Ale yeast
2⁄3 cup corn sugar (if priming)

120 min boil
Mash at 67c. for 60 mins
Ferment at 19 raising to 21.

I like the idea of a really big porter than isn't to roasty and think the lactose with the chocolate and the booze will create something really nice.

So I started building this beer in beersmith and started to notice some odd things:

1) FG is 1.026... firstly, 1968 yeast isn't going to get anywhere near 11.4% ABV. I tried subbing in EC-1118 but even that won't get below 1.030. Mainly due to the lactose.
2) I know the hops take a real back seat in this recipe. However, they need to balance the beer. The hops seem to be really low to me. I checked the BU:GU ratio and it comes in at 0.27. To me that seems too low

Any other thoughts on the recipe?
 

kadmium

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EC-1118 would ruin that beer, and should never be used in beer making in my opinion. Just strips far too much from the flavour.

I think 11.4 is pretty high, but perhaps think of something like an M42 strong ale yeast or similar?

0.27 BU:GU is pretty low to be honest, I just did a RIS that is at 0.98 BU:GU and I think it's about perfect. The more booze, the longer it ages and the bigger the beer the more you need in my opinion.
 

dibbz

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I don't even include lactose in my recipe and add it at 50g/L (for a milk stout) at packaging, calculating the recipe without lactose would be the same result, the lactose isn't going to go anywhere.

I personally would roast 75-125g of cacao nibs @ 140c until they smell like brownies, around 12 mins, and throw them in hot after high krausen ferment with framgarden kveik.
 

MHB

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Don't see much wrong with it, other than the obvious Wyeast miss choice. Personally I would try Irish Ale (W1084), comes as close as any to being a house yeast for me.
Trouble with living in a bubble (AHB) where it's hops, hops and more hops skews your thinking, 30 IBU will be plenty.
Brew it as is, I suspect you will be surprised at how balanced it is. If it needs it adjust next time.
I to would add the lactose late in the ferment or even at packaging. It might not take part in the ferment but if its in the kettle it will up the OG putting more stress on the yeast, reducing yeast stress is never a bad thing.
Just dissolve in a little boiling water (~500mL), if you are kegging you could add it to the keg.
If you are being really picky you could keep that 500mL out of your water budget
Its getting 4+ ratings so worth a go their way.
Mark

Edit
went and did come counting the lactose (depending on when you add it) only accounts for less than 0.010 of your OG.
Effectively if 10 points is lactose and we take that out, you get an OG of 1.092 and an FG of 1.016, I still only get about 10.3% ABV. Odd BYE recipes are usually pretty reliable.
M
 
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Muz

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EC-1118 would ruin that beer, and should never be used in beer making in my opinion. Just strips far too much from the flavour.
@kadmium Yeah, fair call. I meant to write that I was going to pitch both 1968 and then follow up with EC-1118 to finish it up. Though I've never done this before. I'll look into M42 as well. Again, I haven't used it.
 

Muz

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I don't even include lactose in my recipe and add it at 50g/L (for a milk stout) at packaging, calculating the recipe without lactose would be the same result, the lactose isn't going to go anywhere.

I personally would roast 75-125g of cacao nibs @ 140c until they smell like brownies, around 12 mins, and throw them in hot after high krausen ferment with framgarden kveik.
Good point re: the lactose. I've never considered this. 50g/L seems like a lot though. More than double the recipe. I don't have much experience with lactose though.

Cacao nibs seem to divide people. Some people love them and some hate them. I have to say I haven't loved the beers I've had with Cacao bit maybe they were just crap beers.

I did consider kveik. Will check out framgarden as well. Thanks!
 

Muz

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Don't see much wrong with it, other than the obvious Wyeast miss choice. Personally I would try Irish Ale (W1084), comes as close as any to being a house yeast for me.
Trouble with living in a bubble (AHB) where it's hops, hops and more hops skews your thinking, 30 IBU will be plenty.
Brew it as is, I suspect you will be surprised at how balanced it is. If it needs it adjust next time.
I to would add the lactose late in the ferment or even at packaging. It might not take part in the ferment but if its in the kettle it will up the OG putting more stress on the yeast, reducing yeast stress is never a bad thing.
Just dissolve in a little boiling water (~500mL), if you are kegging you could add it to the keg.
If you are being really picky you could keep that 500mL out of your water budget
Its getting 4+ ratings so worth a go their way.
Mark

Edit
went and did come counting the lactose (depending on when you add it) only accounts for less than 0.010 of your OG.
Effectively if 10 points is lactose and we take that out, you get an OG of 1.092 and an FG of 1.016, I still only get about 10.3% ABV. Odd BYE recipes are usually pretty reliable.
M
I have to say when it comes to hop rates I've never gone wrong keeping to the BU:GU chart guides that are out there. With them the lowest ratios are 0.4 and the big beers like Imperial Stouts are closer to 0.8-1.0. This recipe might be different though because of the lactose. I can see that reducing the bitterness required to balance it. You're right though. The only way to tell is the brew it and see. I just know I'll have bottles of this hanging around to 18 months or more. That's a long time to wait to re-brew and make a correction.

I've also found BYO recipes to be really good in the past. Not sure why this one was out. I really wish they had a comment section on their recipe though.
 
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djebel

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I don't think you will have a problem with the balance. Just as ridiculously high IBU become imperceptible to the human palate, it doesn't take very many IBU to take the sickly edge off a malty beer.
 

Osangar

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Wyeast 1968 (London ESB), White Labs WLP002 (English Ale), or LalBrew London English-Style Ale yeast
2⁄3 cup corn sugar (if priming)

120 min boil
Mash at 67c. for 60 mins
Ferment at 19 raising to 21.

not an expert with the recipe or big stouts, but have done a few stouts with lactose and vanilla.

for me, the London ESB yeast does not work with the 67 mast temp. there is some reference material indicating this strain of yeast works best with low mash temps. I personally dislike this yeast strain and would not use it again. anyways, there is so much going on in your beer use S-04 or even US-05. use a starter or 2 - 3 packets

id suggest a hockkurtz mash schedule

id just use flaked oats, not the malted stuff. and the wheat is not necessary, but if you want just use normal wheat or use flaked wheat. there is also a lot of caramunich 3; id use Munich 2; caramunich gives a lot of sweetness and you already have lactose but the Munich 2 will give a nice malt flavour - you can up it to 1kg for a nice malt backbone

perhaps:

5.5 kg any pale malt
1kg flaked oats
1kg flaked wheat
1kg - 500g Munich 2
50g chocolate malt
50g roasted barley
500g lactose powder
 

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