Get into O2 guys, if you're serious about nicer beer

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Dave70 said:
Splendid!

Now one of these and I'm good to go.

OXYGENSTONEBARB-2T.jpg
Same cylinder, new reg and that stone from TidalPete.

It is great kit.

My cylinder came from "another place" and I'll drop it near a BOC place when she is empty. Then I'm going the Bunnings system.
 
Radshoes said:
Lets be clear. This is the animal we're talking about right?
If so, I'm spewing. I've been wasting it on cutting and welding projects when I could have had better beers for ******* years now..

IMG_8413.JPG.jpg
YEP JUST DIP THAT IN YOUR FERMENTER AND YOU WILL HAVE BETTER BEERS
Do you need to re-hydrate it first?
 
Dave70 said:
Do you need to re-hydrate it first?
pcqypcqy said:
I would, you need to get all that rust and dirt back into solution before adding to the beer.
You're better off adding during the boil, if you really want to oxygenate your beer




vvvv can't delete this box :/
 
Jack of all biers said:
Peteru, your post got me wondering on the whole adding O2 via H2O2 method
...
My only counter thought is that normally H2O2 (as linked by Bribie above) has stabilizers added to keep the H2O2 from decomposing in the container before you the consumer use it.
I have never even considered that there would be additional stabilisers added to the 6% v/v hydrogen peroxide I got from the chemist. My naive assumption was that it was 6% H2O2 and 94% H2O. As far as flavour goes, I have not detected anything that would stick out as contamination, but that does not mean it's not there. I actually happen to be allergic to nitrates, so if those are present I'll be ditching the use of this product. I'll try to contact the manufacturer to find out.

I performed a few (unscientific) experiments along the way to figure out if H2O2 could be used and if so, what's the simplest effective method. Given some of the extra information in this thread, I'll be looking at further tweaks, such as adding a catalyst, like a bit of yeast, to the chilled water. Although, what I do now seems to work pretty well.

My first point of investigation was to determine if adding H2O2 to a yeast starter on a stirplate would have detrimental effect on yeast and potentially kill it. It turned out that the yeast was fine, even when I added the undiluted 6% directly, drop by drop from a pipette. Next was a simple fermentation test. Two jars of wort, one with a few drops of H2O2 added, both inoculated with the same amount of yeast slurry and left to ferment side by side. The H2O2 jar performed "faster" and the resulting beer aroma and flavour was different from each jar. I can't say I had a preference for one or the other, they were just different. I never bothered carbonating or chilling either of those results, it was purely a quick sample evaluation at fermenting temperature to determine if the results were drinkable and comparable. The next test was a batch of Cooper's Stout can with recultured Cooper's Sparkling Ale yeast starter. This was followed by an American Pale Ale and an IPA that I kegged and keg hopped last night. Both of those had large San Diego Super Yeast starters. The stout is now a few weeks old and still pretty good - better than every other time I brewed it before, but I've also introduced fermentation temperature control recently, so temperature could be the big factor rather than additional O2. The APA is sensational, but I've never done that recipe, so can't compare. Same with the IPA recipe, it's first time for me.

So, I can conclude that adding H2O2 doesn't ruin the beer. I think it may improve it, but to be sure a proper controlled side-by-side comparison would be in order. I'm probably not going to get a chance to do that, because with Christmas and summer holidays/parties coming up, I'll be flat out trying to brew enough beer to keep friends and family hydrated. I would be very happy to see others have a go and report on their findings. My dilution rate has been around 1.4-1.5ml to one litre of water when using the 6% v/v hydrogen peroxide from the chemist. I add about 12-15l of this treated water to about 5 or 6l of liquid extract dissolved in warm water. My starters tend to be in the 1.5-2l range. Based on the maths that Mark posted, I could possibly increase that rate to 2-3ml per litre of water because the rest of the ingredients will dilute everything even further.

Anyway, I thought I'd share the idea and get a conversation going. Quite happy to hear arguments for and against as well as suggestions for improvements to the process.
 
Killer Brew said:
I haven't brewed in 2 months now and mainly because I'm convinced that I'm somewhat wasting my time until I can at least get aeration into my wort and preferably with O2. This comes after consistent feedback from comps all pointing towards fermentation quality. Plans are in motion and hopefully I will be able to taste the difference.
Did you like the taste of your own brew before some judges told you it needed work?
 
breakbeer said:
Did you like the taste of your own brew before some judges told you it needed work?
I'm sure his beers tasted good to him but a comment like that from the judges would make me want to improve my brewing practice.
I'm sure we all want to produce the best beer we can & O2 is just another step in the right direction.
 
Yob said:
And an inline filter ...
/Thread.

I use industrial grade oxygen from my oxy acetylene rig* which I convert to food grade oxygen with a 0.2 µm gas filter, available from your LHBS.





* I do a bit of brazing of stainless for the bikes.
 
This O2 really is easy, I'm enjoying it.

Kegmenter with modified dip tube cut back 20mm like danscraftbeer . Sanitise with some starsan, sit into bottom of my chest freezer which had 2 x cubes of a Munich helles chilled down to 8 degrees and 3 x 3 ltr decanted starters of 34/70.

Sit cubes on my neighbouring chesty, siphon chilled wort into kegmenter approx 42 ltrs, drop in airstone and bubble with oxygen for 2 mins, pitch yeast, seal up. Add valve, 2 days now and it's hissing away at 13 psi . Longer lag due to cold pitch. Now at 12 degrees.

Can't wait to try it, should be nice and clean. The beauty of the kegmenter is I can do what danscraftbeer does and pressure transfer out into my 2 cornies, and if needed put my inline beer filter in place .

Done a few crackin lagers over the years, but then some not so crackin ones. Hopefully my new toys get abit more consistency and speed.

Ching, Ching .
 
peteru said:
I performed a few (unscientific) experiments along the way to figure out if H2O2 could be used and if so, what's the simplest effective method.

My first point of investigation was to determine if adding H2O2 to a yeast starter on a stirplate would have detrimental effect on yeast and potentially kill it. It turned out that the yeast was fine, even when I added the undiluted 6% directly, drop by drop from a pipette.
That was a brilliant idea.

Most aerobic organisms (yeast included) have an enzyme called catalase which serves a protective function by degrading peroxide to oxygen*. Adding the peroxide directly to a small amount of yeast will ensure that this kicks in and the peroxide is converted to oxygen.

If you are concerned about additives, I use AR grade 30% peroxide to make up an alkaline peroxide etchant to use when bonding Ti. It has guaranteed levels of impurities and lists no preservatives. I'd be happy to send you some except it's a classified dangerous good for transport, if you are ever in Melbourne you could pick it up.




* it's a useful discriminatory test in determinative bacteriology: if adding peroxide makes the culture fizz, it's catalase positive.
 
Coldspace said:
This O2 really is easy, I'm enjoying it.

Kegmenter with modified dip tube cut back 20mm like danscraftbeer . Sanitise with some starsan, sit into bottom of my chest freezer which had 2 x cubes of a Munich helles chilled down to 8 degrees and 3 x 3 ltr decanted starters of 34/70.

Sit cubes on my neighbouring chesty, siphon chilled wort into kegmenter approx 42 ltrs, drop in airstone and bubble with oxygen for 2 mins, pitch yeast, seal up. Add valve, 2 days now and it's hissing away at 13 psi . Longer lag due to cold pitch. Now at 12 degrees.

Can't wait to try it, should be nice and clean. The beauty of the kegmenter is I can do what danscraftbeer does and pressure transfer out into my 2 cornies, and if needed put my inline beer filter in place .

Done a few crackin lagers over the years, but then some not so crackin ones. Hopefully my new toys get abit more consistency and speed.

Ching, Ching .
I've got a Sanke fermenting kit from Brewer's Hardware in the states & like you, I pressure transfer from my 50L keg fermenter to a bottling bucket or serving kegs.
My first two beers using O2 are fantastic & very clean & crisp in flavour. I don't know why I waited so long to get on the wagon.
 
To be honest, I was keen to go the O2 route, a fellow AHB'er most generously gifted me a reg, then I saw the other thread on O2'ing and the danger side of it freaked me out a bit (the whole 'unknown' thingy there). Still gonna go for it, it just had me freaked out. Just need a bottle and stone and away we go.
 
nothing can live in a pure oxygen environment and even the smallest drop of oil or contamination can react explosively with pure pressurized o2. so im happy to use my bernzomatic setup sans filter and keep making good beer without spending up big on medical o2.
 
madpierre06 said:
To be honest, I was keen to go the O2 route, a fellow AHB'er most generously gifted me a reg, then I saw the other thread on O2'ing and the danger side of it freaked me out a bit (the whole 'unknown' thingy there). Still gonna go for it, it just had me freaked out. Just need a bottle and stone and away we go.
A big deep breath mate, perhaps a home brewed beer. Then get that regulator and 02 happening! :beerbang:
 
breakbeer said:
Did you like the taste of your own brew before some judges told you it needed work?
Some yes, some no. I was struggling with my higher gravity beers >6% and couldn't isolate the issue. Appears it was diacetyl but I hadn't had it identified prior so didn't recognise it. Now that I know it I am picking it up in quite a few of my beers I still have on hand. Looking at my fermentation records and can clearly see the lag and relatively slow overall ferment on bigger beers. I do appropriate sized starters and have temp control so I'm confident the aeration is my issue.
 
madpierre06 said:
To be honest, I was keen to go the O2 route, a fellow AHB'er most generously gifted me a reg, then I saw the other thread on O2'ing and the danger side of it freaked me out a bit (the whole 'unknown' thingy there). Still gonna go for it, it just had me freaked out. Just need a bottle and stone and away we go.
If you have a good O2 reg, we could head to Bunnings Stafford together to get our cylinders. Maybe in the next couple of weeks?
 
Is anyone using a DO meter to measure the O2 going into solution? If so what make/modelare you using? The ones I'm looking at jump in price from around $400 to $2k with not much in between. Would be good to quantify how much goes in for fermentation and also test through the packaging process to see how much ends up in the keg after transfers etc.
 
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