Newbie

[AlesandTales]

Mickchap,
This page might help you.
It has metric and imperial

https://www.kegland.com.au/blogs/keglearn/blog-post-set-and-forget-keg-carbonation

 

[TwoCrows]

The warmer the liquid the less dissolved C02 is held in suspension, in colder liquid they cannot move around as easily, more bubbles.

I have never carbonated at more than 15 PSI to achieve 12 PSI carbonation. Time and pressure get you to the end goal.
My fridge is 4oC
How do you want to serve beer?
Less bubbles or more bubbles?
Use the regulator to adjust.

 

[Mickchap]

The warmer the liquid the less dissolved C02 is held in suspension, in colder liquid they cannot move around as easily, more bubbles.

I have never carbonated at more than 15 PSI to achieve 12 PSI carbonation. Time and pressure get you to the end goal.
My fridge is 4oC
How do you want to serve beer?
Less bubbles or more bubbles?
Use the regulator to adjust.

Ok I’m still confused. If you carbonate at 15 psi… how long for??
And what are the numbers in the colours?? Is that the pressure you use for dispursement??

 

[TwoCrows]

I ferment and put into a keg, this is the easiest and fastest way to achieve carbonation, no secondary ferment.
I do have a sealed or pressure ferment condition. No more than 10 PSi natural C02 contribute at time of transfer.
Transfer and put under conditioning via C02 gas bottle.
Drink beer within 12 -24 hours.
I do not worry about the true state of gas and temp as I am consuming. I adjust as needed. Fridge is 4 C and transfer @ 4 C.


2 mtrs of 4mm line contained within the fridge.

 

[AlesandTales]

Ok I’m still confused. If you carbonate at 15 psi… how long for??
And what are the numbers in the colours?? Is that the pressure you use for dispursement??

It is like asking how long is a piece of string.
Have a read of the link above and do some calculations based on your actual temperatures of the beer, the style of the beer and the pressure being applied.
Draw a line across the chart from the temperature and down from the desired carbonation and the figure you hit on will be the regulator setting.
Most systems will require fine tuning but it is difficult for anyone to guess your requirements.

 

[Mickchap]

It is like asking how long is a piece of string.
Have a read of the link above and do some calculations based on your actual temperatures of the beer, the style of the beer and the pressure being applied.
Draw a line across the chart from the temperature and down from the desired carbonation and the figure you hit on will be the regulator setting.
Most systems will require fine tuning but it is difficult for anyone to guess your requirements.

I understand draw a line across from the temp and you said draw a line down from the desired carbonation (which I used 30 psi for 48 hours on my first keg). The vertical line only goes up to 9.0. I have read the article. There is something I’m not following. Sorry for my dumbness here.
Is desired carbonation the amount of pressure you set on your keg from the co2 bottle for however many days???? Mine was 30 psi for 48 hours.

 

[AlesandTales]

Ok so I see that you are setting a pressure that is higher than the pressure required for carbonation.
The desired pressure as indicated on the chart is the pressure that you will apply from the gas regulator to carbonate and serve the beer.
The chart can’t help you with your question because the method you are using is a rough guess.
I posted this link previously in this topic and it is titled “The Ross Method”
This method works if you want to carbonate your keg in an hour or so.

https://aussiehomebrewer.com/threads/ross-method-of-forced-carbonation-of-kegs.8535/
Have a read of it and see how you go..
After you have rolled the keg don’t forget to bleed off all pressure from the keg and in the lines and regulator and then set the regulator to approximate serving pressure

 

[Mickchap]

Ok so I see that you are setting a pressure that is higher than the pressure required for carbonation.
The desired pressure as indicated on the chart is the pressure that you will apply from the gas regulator to carbonate and serve the beer.
The chart can’t help you with your question because the method you are using is a rough guess.
I posted this link previously in this topic and it is titled “The Ross Method”
This method works if you want to carbonate your keg in an hour or so.

https://aussiehomebrewer.com/threads/ross-method-of-forced-carbonation-of-kegs.8535/
Have a read of it and see how you go..
Don’t forget to bleed off all pressure from the keg and in the lines and regulator and then set the regulator to approximate serving pressure

Ok then if the desired pressure is the pressure to carbonate your keg (the numbers in the middle of the chart), what are the numbers at the top for?? ie the numbers you draw a line vertically down???

 

[mblwest]

What you are doing is force carbonating to rapidly reach a drinking carbonation level. The amount of CO2 dissolved in the beer is dependent on temperature and pressure. The numbers in green are the dissolved CO2 volumes. Lets say you are carbonating an ale and you have your keg in the fridge at 40 deg F then you would need a pressure of 11 - 12 psi, which is what I do. If you do this from the beginning i.e. no 30 psi for 2 days, then you will end up with the correct volume of dissolved CO2 but it will just take longer, about 5 to 6 days. You are forcing the CO2 into the beer under a higher pressure to reach the same dissolved CO2 value sooner. Forced carbonation is good but you do risk over carbonating if left at the high pressure for too long which leads to a glass full of foam, trust me!

 

[mblwest]

Numbers higher are for lower ambient temps, not sure why you would want to carbonate below freezing though!

 

[Dave70]

We're putting bubbles into beer, not launching satellites.
2.5 bar (around 35 psi) at 3 deg for 24 hours.
Disconnect gas, purge keg.
Reconnect gas.
Drop it back to around 70 kpa (10 psi) and serve.
Works every time.

 

[AlesandTales]

Mickchap.
If choosing to use C02 to carbonate and serve your keg of beer there are a few ways to do it.
The first is the guess method that you are using and this info is usually provided by HB shops etc.
If using this method the chart is useless.

The second method where you will use the chart is to set the pressure in relation to the temperature and required serving pressure and just leave everything to do its thing and your keg will carbonate correctly over time. This might be a week to two weeks which will be totally dependent on the conditions of your serving equipment figures. This is foolproof but takes some time to carbonate.

The third method if you require quick carbonation is to use “The Ross Method” as outlined by an old member on this forum from some time ago. If you follow the instructions in that link I supplied you can be drinking your beer within the hour if all parameters are met with regard to temperature, rocking and rolling time and pressure.
This works well if the keg is chilled to serving temperature prior to gassing.
Dont forget if you use this method you need to burp the gas from the keg and wind the pressure down on your C02 gauge prior to serving or you will just pour foam. When burping the keg some foam will come out of the PRV.

The other method of carbonation is to treat you keg as you would a bottle and add sugar and seal the keg and allow it to stand for two weeks at room temp > 20deg c <
After two weeks chill the keg and connect it to your keezer / kegerator at serving pressure.
The serving pressure will be according to style of beer and beer line length and size which are links above to that information as well.
I don’t think there is much more that can be said about carbonating and serving.
Read all of the info given above and choose the method that suits you.
Good luck with it all..enjoy your beer.

 

[AlesandTales]

We're putting bubbles beer, not launching satellites.
2.5 bar (around 35 psi) at 3 deg for 24 hours.
Disconnect gas, purge keg.
Reconnect gas.
Drop it back to around 70 kpa (10 psi) and serve.
Works every time.

Good point there.
I think our OP want to drink it straight away…. and that is where the guess work comes in.
Your method or the Ross method still basically needs at least 24 hours, whether applying gas for that time or chilling the beer for a similar time. This time may be too long for the OP.

 

[Mickchap]

Good point there.
I think our OP want to drink it straight away…. and that is where the guess work comes in.
Your method or the Ross method still basically needs at least 24 hours, whether applying gas for that time or chilling the beer for a similar time. This time may be too long for the OP.

Time isn’t a factor to me. I’m not a big drinker but love making it and having one or two after work a couple of times a week. So I might scrap the 30 psi for two days and do the lower pressure over the week or two.

 

[AlesandTales]

Time isn’t a factor to me. I’m not a big drinker but love making it and having one or two after work a couple of times a week. So I might scrap the 30 psi for two days and do the lower pressure over the week or two.

That sounds like that method will suit you.
Keg forced carbonation can be daunting at first but you will get used to your system with the temperature and pressures required.
Doing it the way you just suggested will let you test it periodically over the two weeks to achieve the sweet spot.
C02 Gauges and temp thermometers vary.
For example I find my kegs gas up quite well if I apply a little more pressure at 4 deg c than what the chart suggests. Approx an extra 2 psi does it for me.
I think it recommends approx 12 psi but my system is really good at 14psi.
The discrepancy would be in my C02 gauge so just bear this in mind, your gauge could be different to mine and the bloke next doors as well.
Good luck mate, enjoy your beer.

 

[Mickchap]

That sounds like that method will suit you.
Keg forced carbonation can be daunting at first but you will get used to your system with the temperature and pressures required.
Doing it the way you just suggested will let you test it periodically over the two weeks to achieve the sweet spot.
C02 Gauges and temp thermometers vary.
For example I find my kegs gas up quite well if I apply a little more pressure at 4 deg c than what the chart suggests. Approx an extra 2 psi does it for me.
I think it recommends approx 12 psi but my system is really good at 14psi.
The discrepancy would be in my C02 gauge so just bear this in mind, your gauge could be different to mine and the bloke next doors as well.
Good luck mate, enjoy your beer.

Thankyou everyone. I’m in Melbourne until tomorrow and get back to Sydney late tomorrow night. I have a wort that has just finished fermenting and will keg it on the weekend. I still have my first very frothy beer in my first keg. Went and bought a second keg and will do the lower pressure over the longer time period and see how that goes.

 

[TwoCrows]

Just remember to remove the gas line from the keg, and then set the pressure required and reattach.

 

[Mickchap]

Just remember to remove the gas line from the keg, and then set the pressure required and reattach.

2 more questions!!
When I have the gas connected for carbonating is it ok to disconnect it and connect it to the first keg of beer at pouring pressure, pour the beer then disconnect it and reattach to the beer to the keg I am carbonating at the higher pressure?

And my beer line is just under two metres with 5mm diameter. Is that length sufficient?? Some people have told me your length is important and some have said I don’t really need to worry about the length.

 

[TwoCrows]

Picnched this from the ibrew web page.

Beer line lengths play an important role when kegging your beer.

The resistance needs to be calculated based on each particular setup. If you are using a direct draw setup (such as a kegerator/keg fridge) you will have to make sure you have some resistance in your system. Resistance can be created several ways but the easiest is just to increase the length of the beer line.

For 4mm ID (internal diameter) beer line the length should be 1.8-2.5m, for

5mm ID beer line the length should be about 3-4.5 meters.

6mm internal diameter the length should be 5-10 meters.



FAQ: Can you turn down the pressure on your regulator and use a shorter beer line to reduce foaming.

No..Because if you have the pressure too low on your kegs, the beer will lose carbonation.

NOTE: It is important to also make sure you pressure on your regulator is set correctly based on the temperature that you have your beer sitting at.

 

[Dave70]

Just remember to remove the gas line from the keg, and then set the pressure required and reattach.

And degas the keg.
This is a critical step if, like me, you live on the edge and fill the keg a to within a nanometer from the tip of the 'gas in' tube.

Guess what happens when there's 35psi in the keg and 10psi in the line.

Thats right!

The pressure differential created forces beer straight up the gas line and into the regulator.

Now, instead of kicking back with a cold one, you're dismantling and cleaning your reg, and you better do it, cos that **** really gums up the works.
You'll probably also discover the thing hasn't been disassembled since leaving the factory and has essentially welded itself together.

So, yeah.
Don't do it.