Get into O2 guys, if you're serious about nicer beer

[TidalPete]

Stouter, on 28 Oct 2016 - 8:38 PM, said:Stouter, on 28 Oct 2016 - 8:38 PM, said:

I'm sure there's numerous links stating the filtering process and the possibilities of differing levels of the harmless unfiltered ***** in the industrial grade.
Hence my, "recommended" inclusion.
I'm not advising one way or the other as I've never used it, but it makes sense to me that they'd have a different type for use with food/beer, etc. Prob not much difference in drinking bad water, or breathing bad air, eating food out of the wrong type of container....

No links, but Benzene and headaches rings a bell though.

With so much misinformation thrown around without a proper search on AHB these days I'm not surprised it's (AHB that is) going down the shute.
Does supposedly food-grade C02 ring a bell????
No more responses from me on this topic.

 

[Yob]

Oxywand from CraftBrewer.
CoreGas deal from bunnings
Cigweld oxygen regulator from Bunnings

20160902_170927.jpg

20160902_171105.jpg

just needs an inline filter.. boom!

dafuq didnt I get this for my birthday instead of an x-box one which I wont find time to use? :blink: <_< :angry2:

 

[Yob]

With so much misinformation thrown around without a proper search on AHB these days I'm not surprised it's (AHB that is) going down the shute.
Does supposedly food-grade C02 ring a bell????
No more responses from me on this topic.

sorry Pete, it was my understanding it's largely the tanks that make the difference.. I looked into these a while back and I was of the belief that with an inline filter (well maintained/replaced) that it's largely a moot point..

Not stirring **** up, just what I came to understand. I certainly wouldnt go this route without one.. Ive got the filters (somewhere) and a flow meter, just havnt ponied up for the tank yet.. I guess with so many ******* RIS's going through here I should make it sooner rather than later (one system or the other)

 

[Danscraftbeer]

Yes to O2. It only takes a tiny bit. This bottle will last me the next 20 years of home brewing I reckon. Then if the Bunnings plan is the same its only $70 dollars to swap over. Or if you give up brewing altogether you can get your $200 down payment back on returning the bottle.

 

[Yob]

should get a dozen uses out of an inline filter (good ones) and they're pretty cheap..

 

[Crusty]

should get a dozen uses out of an inline filter (good ones) and they're pretty cheap..

I think the inline filters are aimed at air pump injection as it's the surrounding air that will inevitably end up being injected into your wort & I wouldn't be using an air pump without one. No need for it though with pressurized O2 I'm pretty sure. I guess it wouldn't hurt to put one in but I don't think it's necessary.

 

[Yob]

Not the ones Ive bought.. certainly a lot better than the little ones for air pumps

was my understanding that the tank material is the "food grade" bit, the gas is largely the same.. I wouldnt use without the filters based on my research

 

[Crusty]

Not the ones Ive bought.. certainly a lot better than the little ones for air pumps

was my understanding that the tank material is the "food grade" bit, the gas is largely the same.. I wouldnt use without the filters based on my research

I might look into that.
Do you have a link to where you got the filters from?

 

[Stouter]

With so much misinformation thrown around without a proper search on AHB these days I'm not surprised it's (AHB that is) going down the shute.
Does supposedly food-grade C02 ring a bell????
No more responses from me on this topic.

Not throwing anything around, just inviting discussion and input from others who know the right answers. Which seems to have occurred a few posts on, without the need to get all do de do... :huh:
I'll use the search function more thoroughly next time eh?!

 

[Yob]

I might look into that.
Do you have a link to where you got the filters from?

keg king... big ones, disc filters

 

[Crusty]

keg king... big ones, disc filters

Cheers

 

[peteru]

O2 aeration is good, but if you are doing kits there is a very easy, safe and cheap way of getting good amounts of O2 into the fermenter.

I have a 15L cube that I fill with filtered water and a small amount of hydrogen peroxide. Chill the cube overnight. When doing kits or partial boil with extract, use this cold oxygenated water to top up the fermenter once to concentrated wort has been dissolved.

This technique, together with good starters (2L starter for 25L batch) will give me a very quick start (krausen forming within 4-6 hours), vigorous fermentation (blow-off tube going at around 3 bubbles every 2 seconds) and quick ferments (2-3 days)

When I was using a paint stirrer to aerate, krausen would not be evident until 12-48 hours, blow off tube would only bubble about once every 2 seconds and fermentation would take 5-7 days.

Hydrogen peroxide only costs about $4 for 100ml from the local chemist, which is enough for about 5-10 batches. Bigger bottles and higher concentrations are also available, if you want to reduce the cost even further.

 

[MHB]

Interesting idea peteru, my initial reaction would be that there isn't enough H2O2 going in to provide theO2 you need for full aeration (Oxygenation), but lets work through the numbers.
ppm and mg/L are the same so in a 25L batch where we want around 10ppm of dissolved O2 we want (25*10=) 250mg or 0.25g
The peroxide I found online for $4/100ml is 6% w/v, so 6g of H2O2/100mL.
Say you are getting 5 doses/ bottle you are adding 1.2g of H2O2
If all of the H2O2 breaks down into H2O and O2 (2H2O2 > 2H2O + O2) the yield is close to 50%, so your yield of O2 would be 0.6g

A bit of a surprise, but it looks like there is plenty of O2 available.
The only question being, is it breaking down or are you still getting most of it going into the brew as peroxide that will damage yeast, I suspect the answer is a bit of a mixture, but from your observations a fair fraction appears to be breaking down and going into the brew.

Have to give this a bit more thought.
Anyone with a DO meter want to do some measurements?
Mark

 

[Adr_0]

It would appear that yeast is quite the catalyst for H2O2 decomposition:
http://www.coolscience.org/CoolScience/KidScientists/h2o2.htm

Well I'm sold...

 

[Shadime]

Great thread,

Is O2 good for all beers? the reason I ask is that I thought it was important to have slower ferments for some beers which is why cooler temperatures are recommended. Or does temperature do something else?

Thanks

 

[altone]

Ok,. first to the OP Coldspace - it's "you're serious" not "your serious" sorry - pet hate

Now I've got that out of my system.

I have been aerating for some time, but the comment about disposable O2 cylinders from Masters made me think,
the local one is about to shut it's doors and selling stuff off below cost so I'm off to see if I can grab
a few and a cheap regulator.
The aeration filter I use is same as the KegKing one (it might even have come from there)
so the rest of the setup should work fine as is.

Worth a shot at such a small investment if it might make my beer better.

 

[Goose]

Not the ones Ive bought.. certainly a lot better than the little ones for air pumps

was my understanding that the tank material is the "food grade" bit, the gas is largely the same.. I wouldnt use without the filters based on my research

There is no way I would pump industrial or welding O2 into my beer, even with a filter.

Instead I use "Medical" grade O2. No filter required, but you might need a bigger wallet.

https://www.boc.com.au/shop/en/au/medical-oxygen

 

[SBOB]

There is no way I would pump industrial or welding O2 into my beer, even with a filter.

Instead I use "Medical" grade O2. No filter required, but you might need a bigger wallet.

https://www.boc.com.au/shop/en/au/medical-oxygen

and what do you think the difference is between 'industrial' and 'medical' oxygen?
O2 is O2 is O2.
aint nothing growing in there, and they aint adding or removing any 'magic' from the industrial version


medical oxygen just requires a higher level of traceability and likely an extra decimal point worth of guarantee in its purity (i.e 99.999% v 99.9999%)

 

[Bribie G]

Fauldings brand 3% Hydrogen Peroxide at around $4.50 for 200ml is available in many Woolies and Coles stores, and I've seen it at chemists. It makes a good mouthwash after dental work or for peripheral gum disease.
It's usually in the same spot as the Liquid Paraffin, Calamine Lotion etc.

I always have a couple of bottles around, mostly for treating ingrowing toenails. Might give it a go with my next brew.



Edit: they also do glycerine in the same shape bottle, handy for yeast freezing.

 

[altone]

and what do you think the difference is between 'industrial' and 'medical' oxygen?
O2 is O2 is O2.
aint nothing growing in there, and they aint adding or removing any 'magic' from the industrial version


medical oxygen just requires a higher level of traceability and likely an extra decimal point worth of guarantee in its purity (i.e 99.999% v 99.9999%)

Well back in the olden days, Oxy welding O2 had a lot of moisture in it and could contain lubricant particles from the compressors.
I'm hoping that current technology is much cleaner than way back then, but how clean?


O2 is O2 sure but what OTHER than O2 is present in industrial gases?

The difference between commercial grade and food grade is usually the latter doesn't contain impurities, same applies here surely.

Edit: Doesn't mean I'm not going to use industrial grade - just means I'll be aware it may not be as "clean" as medical grade