Get into O2 guys, if you're serious about nicer beer

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

We don't know. We actually don't know if there was any oxygenation present at the time.

If there wasn't, that would explain the poor attenuation. If there was, I'll investigate further.

 

[mtb]

Ah that's right - busted oxygenator. Sounded like the most logical explanation.

 

[peteru]

At this point I'm not sure if it was busted - I think it may have been working, except for the LED. Maybe it was only working partially, because I saw some signs of activity. I took it to the post office and mailed it back this arvo so LC should be able to take a closer look in a few days.

However, my understanding, based on a few comments I noticed recently, is that while dry yeast is acclimatising to it's new environment, O2 can be harmful. Once the yeast is rehydrated, at the right temperature and nutrients are available, then O2 is beneficial.

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

What does this mean for packaging? If a cold crashed beer is packed at 2 degrees say, and then warmed to room temp, even if purged of oxygen could still have harmful amounts inside. Is it then better practice to bottle at room temp?

It's high school science. Colder water can hold more dissolved oxygen than warmer water, with 4C being the saturation point. It's also why zooplankton / phytoplankton density is greater in colder oceans than warm tropical oceans - thats why the latter are clearer and bluer. But I digress, that has nothing to do with beer.

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Also, this from John Palmer on oxygen and hot wort. It's Little wonder my brews have massive oxidation problems.

To date, I've been breaking every single rule

1. Splash the still hot (between 30 and 95 degrees depending if I've chilled or not, which are all too hot) wort into the fermenter to get as much oxygen in as possible. Bad

2. Don't bother oxygenating any more than this, she's right. I've done hundreds of brews just like this before and they've all turned out ok. No they haven't..

3. Cold crash and splash the 2 degree beer into a bottling bucket, pour in the bottling prime sugar and give it a gentle stir. Bad

4. Transfer to bottles and cap right away, give a little shake to 'get things happening'. Pop them in the 28-44 degree shed to age in Darwin heat. Umm, yea, not good

5. Pop the first one in a couple days. Mmm, nice! This one's finally going to be a winner! Pop another 1 week later: wtf happened to this!!?? It's gone downhill. Again. Why!?

I'm beginning to see a rather discerning pattern of very bad brewing practice all pointing to extremely bad oxidation

 

[wide eyed and legless]

If using a correct pitch rate, as calculated using something like the brewer's friend calc (link), is oxygen required?

From what I can gather here, oxygen helps with yeast growth. From what I can gather on the calc, the pitch rates are based on what pro brewers use to minimise the amount of growth required and start the beer off right.

I'm taking a more active interest in pitch rates at the moment, and oxygen may well come down the track, but keen to get people's thoughts.

(Apologies if I've missed discussion on this, but in the last year since I first commented on this thread, the page count has increased somewhat!)

You are correct in thinking that, different strains of yeast has different needs, that is why the commercial breweries dose the oxygen in accordance with the the yeast strain and the viability of the yeast. Not enough isn't good, too much isn't good.

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Did my first aeration with paint stirrer yesterday. I couldn't get it hot so not not sure how anyone's getting too hot to even touch. Set on the highest drill speed was crazy so have to use a lower, more appropriate setting. It seems to do ok but I had higher hopes. It just doesn't seem lIke I'm getting that much oxygen

 

[mtb]

It just doesn't seem lIke I'm getting that much oxygen

How do you quantify that? Are you counting the particles?

Use a paint stirrer, by all means, but if you want decent saturation you can follow the piles of advice given already to use a pure o2 system.

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Just my thoughts Skeeter. Not having a go. Juuust saying

(backs out of room quiely)

 

[MHB]

Did my first aeration with paint stirrer yesterday. I couldn't get it hot so not not sure how anyone's getting too hot to even touch. Set on the highest drill speed was crazy so have to use a lower, more appropriate setting. It seems to do ok but I had higher hopes. It just doesn't seem lIke I'm getting that much oxygen

You have been saying that you are having trouble with flavour and stability of your beer.
Need to clarify, when are you aerating? Should be aerating wort at pitching temperature, just before adding yeast.
What do you mean about getting it hot? What and when.
Personally I wouldn't use a paint stirrer, you will never get enough aeration to be effective and if you are forming a vortex you will also be sucking in lots of bacteria with the air, big chance of infection.

O2 is more soluble in cold than in hot wort, I don't get what you mean your references to heat - they simply aren't making sense. Getting too much O2 into hot wort will do harm to flavour and stability.
Be a good idea to lay out exactly your steps.
If you aren't going to use pure O2, I would stick to dry yeast - for various reasons dry yeast is less dependant on dissolved O2 than liquid cultures.
Mark

 

[technobabble66]

As I don't have an O2 setup, which is clearly the best option, and are limited to stirring, I've found that storing vigorously twice provides really good results even on the higher OG beers. So I'd stir on pitching then again 1-3 hrs later. The idea is to compensate somewhat for the lower dissolved O2 stirring will achieve by doing it a second time an hour or so afterwards, hopefully once the yeast has "woken up" and possibly used a lot of the oxygen from the first stir. A bit similar to some of the English techniques, I hoped.
Admittedly this is normally on yeast cakes, so hard to know how much is from the stirring technique and how much is from the high pitch rate.

 

[Phoney]

I don't get what you mean your references to heat - they simply aren't making sense.

I read that as meaning that the power drill he was using didn't get hot to touch.

While I agree that sucking in the surrounding air could inject foreign bacteria, I used a stick blender for years before investing in an O2 kit and never once had an issue.

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

You have been saying that you are having trouble with flavour and stability of your beer.
Need to clarify, when are you aerating? Should be aerating wort at pitching temperature, just before adding yeast.
What do you mean about getting it hot? What and when.
Personally I wouldn't use a paint stirrer, you will never get enough aeration to be effective and if you are forming a vortex you will also be sucking in lots of bacteria with the air, big chance of infection.

O2 is more soluble in cold than in hot wort, I don't get what you mean your references to heat - they simply aren't making sense. Getting too much O2 into hot wort will do harm to flavour and stability.
Be a good idea to lay out exactly your steps.
If you aren't going to use pure O2, I would stick to dry yeast - for various reasons dry yeast is less dependant on dissolved O2 than liquid cultures.
Mark

Hey Mark! Sorry, I should have explained a bit better. As another poster has since put it - I meant the drill or drill bit. Reason I mention that is because people earlier were saying their stuff would get too hot to touch. Though it all means little.

To clarify, I've never really aerated before (gasps) most I've ever done was a few 'swoops' with the paddle spoon while trying not to spill wort over the edge of fermenter, so this is a new step for me in my new quest to make a superior quality product.

I waited until the wort was at pitching temp before aerating. Have learned recently about even low disolved oxygen in mash (which was completely new to me! So have also boiled the strike water to expel o2 this batch. As you'll see in the photo, plenty seemed to come out before the boil. It just cycled around without breaking the surface before boiling out) so I'm aware of never splashing at temperature as it causes oxidation also.

I bought the paint stirrer first to see how it goes before shelling out for a gas setup. A few people here have said that they have o2 but haven't used it in a while because the stirrer is just as good taste-wise so I want to see what difference I note (if any?) Before going any further

Cheers

 

[rude]

Wondering if anyone knows if you can buy Berzomatic o2 cylinders still
I have searched Bunnings but no go might have to ring them tomorrow to comfirm
Kook has one up fot sale so just wanted to make sure you can still purchase them
cheers Rude

 

[rossbaker]

Another option for people looking to start with o2 - keg King now stock a full setup. I purchased a bottle, regulator, and stone/wand kit for $120 all up. I don't think I saw the bottles on their website, but they had it all in store. No deposit for the bottle so less of an upfront cost.

The reg just has psi, no flow meter, so I'm still getting used to how to use it but I'm pretty happy with the purchase.

 

[rude]

Cheers RB looks a good option but no keg king in the west
not sure if they post but if they do will check them out

 

[mtb]

Wondering if anyone knows if you can buy Berzomatic o2 cylinders still
I have searched Bunnings but no go might have to ring them tomorrow to comfirm
Kook has one up fot sale so just wanted to make sure you can still purchase them
cheers Rude

Cheeky Peak Brewery do them - https://cheekypeakbrewery.com.au/40-1g-bernzomatic-disposable-oxygen-bottle

 

[capsicum]

Wondering if anyone knows if you can buy Berzomatic o2 cylinders still
I have searched Bunnings but no go might have to ring them tomorrow to comfirm
Kook has one up fot sale so just wanted to make sure you can still purchase them
cheers Rude

Yeah mate - Brewmart in bayswater has O2 kits and the red Bernzomatic cylinders to go with them:
http://www.brewmart.com.au/brewmart...271&SZIDX=0&CCODE=17531&QOH=2&keywords=oxygen