Get into O2 guys, if you're serious about nicer beer
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madpierre06
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Always up for anything that's likely to end in beers. Easy as mate.zorsoc_cosdog said:
Both the food grade and pharmaceutical grade hydrogen peroxide at 3% and 6% concentrations are not classified as dangerous goods and good to ship using normal post. It's the products in concentrations above 10% that require special handling. So, there's always the option of sticking with the 6% concentration, just getting a purer product than what the chemist sells. Keeping a 1l bottle refrigerated should not be too hard.
No product data sheets at ANPROS for the two types, but I suspect that the pharmaceutical product would be as suitable as it can get.
No product data sheets at ANPROS for the two types, but I suspect that the pharmaceutical product would be as suitable as it can get.
Adr_0
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This is a great topic. Normally I dip something else in my wort to give it a bit of a kick, but a greasy, rusty cylinder sounds like just what the doctor ordered.
In parallel with not brewing, I've been looking at low DO methods, and I think somewhere it was suggested to oxygenate AFTER pitching or with pitching. On one hand I guess this leans towards this O2 being very quickly used in metabolism of sugahz, but if H2O2 is added (to wort, after pitching) I wonder if there'd be prefertial bonding if the O to proteins, etc rather than other H202 to form O2. The relative reaction rates under different conditions (temperature, pH, concentration) would be critical... Or just try it I guess.
I'm also curious about yeast being a catalyst for this. This would suggest that the reaction rate for H202 to O2 is increased, but does it affect/improve selectivity (does O2 reaction rate increase more than O-R bonding reaction rate)? Does yeast come out unscathed, or should cheap yeast be sacrificed in water beforehand?
So, I guess assuming:
-no change to yeast
-the yeast does preferentially increase decomposition to O2 over forming O-R components...
...then it seems to me that the yeast (in high volume) should be pitched, allowed to mix for a little while, then oxidisation should be done - eg add food grade H2O2, drop in rusty G size cylinder, etc. This is probably supported by the low DO philosophy.
Lot of speculation in there, so think my next batch will be a three way. And after the three way, do you three different yeast tests.
In parallel with not brewing, I've been looking at low DO methods, and I think somewhere it was suggested to oxygenate AFTER pitching or with pitching. On one hand I guess this leans towards this O2 being very quickly used in metabolism of sugahz, but if H2O2 is added (to wort, after pitching) I wonder if there'd be prefertial bonding if the O to proteins, etc rather than other H202 to form O2. The relative reaction rates under different conditions (temperature, pH, concentration) would be critical... Or just try it I guess.
I'm also curious about yeast being a catalyst for this. This would suggest that the reaction rate for H202 to O2 is increased, but does it affect/improve selectivity (does O2 reaction rate increase more than O-R bonding reaction rate)? Does yeast come out unscathed, or should cheap yeast be sacrificed in water beforehand?
So, I guess assuming:
-no change to yeast
-the yeast does preferentially increase decomposition to O2 over forming O-R components...
...then it seems to me that the yeast (in high volume) should be pitched, allowed to mix for a little while, then oxidisation should be done - eg add food grade H2O2, drop in rusty G size cylinder, etc. This is probably supported by the low DO philosophy.
Lot of speculation in there, so think my next batch will be a three way. And after the three way, do you three different yeast tests.
It's fun when you start dabbling in something that has not been done over and over before. The idea, that no matter which way it ends up going, you'll learn something, is appealing. It could turn out that H2O2 is pointless or even detrimental, or it could be that it's a piss easy way for homebrewers to add enough O2 to improve their beers. It'll be great to see others have a go.
Killer Brew
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Sugahz is my new favourite misspelling. So gangsta!Adr_0 said:
alcoadam
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As far as "medical grade" o2 goes, it is filled with the same stuff that fills the industrial one.
When an industrial bottle is returned it will simply be refilled, regardless of what is left in the bottle.
"Med grade" bottles will be emptied first, purged, then filled in a vacuum environment.
Just depends how fussy you are I suppose...
When an industrial bottle is returned it will simply be refilled, regardless of what is left in the bottle.
"Med grade" bottles will be emptied first, purged, then filled in a vacuum environment.
Just depends how fussy you are I suppose...
madpierre06
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Getting excited about this. Quite keen.
Roosterboy
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There is a White Labs YouTube video where they compare Using Oxygen , not using it and shaking the shit out of the fermenter
( assuming approx. 22 L of wort ) pre yeast pitching.
They found shaking the hell out of the fermenter for 10 mins was just as good as using Oxygen.
( assuming approx. 22 L of wort ) pre yeast pitching.
They found shaking the hell out of the fermenter for 10 mins was just as good as using Oxygen.
Wyeast YouTube video where they talk about how hard it is to aerate your wort by shaking if you're not using oxygen.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=75gpehf_6Gk
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=75gpehf_6Gk
Roosterboy
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Not for everyone and it could probably contribute to the occasional myocardial infarction ( death by brewing) but just a thought.Batz said:
plus using 'air' thats just absorbed by shaking means thats 10 minutes of mixing in air and whatever 'bits' are floating around in it, and from my reading/podcast listening, shaking is a DO max of about ~8ppm.. enough for 'good enough' but not 'ideal'Roosterboy said:
I have just found the exact same thing , 1048 down to 1015 in 3 days after 36 hr lag due to an 8 degree pitch , munich helles at 10-11 degrees cold pitched and O2 this week in my new kegmenter. This batch used to take like 10 or so days in my old plastic fermenters arerated with paint stirrer for like 4 mins, frothing up everywhere etc.SBOB said:
Funny thing is , had a colleague from work drop in for afew of my new IPA O2 beers, my best yet, crisp as, then went to the brew house , showed the kegmenter, which tonight has slowed to a non-existant hiss , 4 days down now, purged hydro sample into jug, tested 1012 so nearly there, I'm thinking 1008 or so, we then actually poured half a pot off the kegmenter, poured slightly cloudy, 14 degrees, 80% done, 70% carbonated lol,
And it was actually drinkable ,
Well after 4 x 6.6 IPA 's anything is possible lol
It's all heading into the right territory anyway.
Crusty
Well-Known Member
I'd question the validity of that.Roosterboy said:
There's no way you will get the same oxygen saturation from shaking the fermenter as opposed to pressurized O2.
Not questioning whether you seen the video but I question those results. I'm glad I'm not tossing my 50L keg fermenter around for 10mins.
As I mentioned earlier in this thread, even with the hydrogen peroxide method for adding O2, the ferments are much faster than with paint stirrer. Somewhere between 2/3 and 1/2 the time, going from 5-7 days to 2-4 days for ales fermented at 17C-19C. Lag is also much shorter.
