Get into O2 guys, if you're serious about nicer beer

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

Another benefit of the wand is ease of sanitisation. You can dunk the whole thing into the wort during the last 5min to sanitise, whereas with a bit of gas line / poly tubing I assume you can't subject it to such temps and have to dunk in sanitiser instead.

My oxygenation rig used* a polymer hose between the sterile filter and the sinter and I autoclaved it before every use with no ill effects. Just don't use plasticised PVC or polythene tubing and you should be OK.

Re the swirling thing: it is probably unnecessary. Research has shown that you need about 6 metres of fluid depth for all the O2 released from a standard sinter to go into solution. If it's not going into solution it will create a bubble train which will mix the wort for you: rousing a tank with gas is a standard way of mixing.


* I no longer use a standard oxygenation rig as I'm working on a substitute. Will report details in a few months.

 

[big78sam]

Can you give us a taste report? Please.

I haven't tried it yet. Its been in the keg a week and a half. Im planning to to leave it until next winter but ill have a sneaky taste tomorrow and report back

 

[mtb]

My oxygenation rig used* a polymer hose between the sterile filter and the sinter and I autoclaved it before every use with no ill effects. Just don't use plasticised PVC or polythene tubing and you should be OK.

Re the swirling thing: it is probably unnecessary. Research has shown that you need about 6 metres of fluid depth for all the O2 released from a standard sinter to go into solution. If it's not going into solution it will create a bubble train which will mix the wort for you: rousing a tank with gas is a standard way of mixing.


* I no longer use a standard oxygenation rig as I'm working on a substitute. Will report details in a few months.

Much appreciated LC.

 

[Zorco]

I always wanted to try an oxygen generator - the one old people use. Then pressurise it somehow and with a makeshift gun burst the O2 into the wort with a super fine, atomising (for lack of a better word) nozzle.

Like injecting your meat with succulent brine...

Just a drunken thought one day.

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Re: oxygen compatible check valve, something all brass with teflon seat/seal materials would be the safest. But it also should be oxygen cleaned which can be challenging to get off the shelf and at a reasonable price.

Also a proud wand stirrer, in light of Lyrebirds figure of 6m depth for complete dissolution you might as well stir to maximise surface are of the bubbles to wort exposure.

 

[pcqypcqy]

If using a correct pitch rate, as calculated using something like the brewer's friend calc (link), is oxygen required?

From what I can gather here, oxygen helps with yeast growth. From what I can gather on the calc, the pitch rates are based on what pro brewers use to minimise the amount of growth required and start the beer off right.

I'm taking a more active interest in pitch rates at the moment, and oxygen may well come down the track, but keen to get people's thoughts.

(Apologies if I've missed discussion on this, but in the last year since I first commented on this thread, the page count has increased somewhat!)

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

Depends what you mean by required.

You can make good beer without oxygen. You can make better beer with oxygen.

Your choice.

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Pro brewers dose oxygen.

 

[Stouter]

Got an oxy cylinder on what BOC gas call a 'D' plan. $79/yr. pick up at the start full, then another refill within that first year, then one refill each year from then on. I was paying $36 each for those little red cylinders from the auto shop. Not sure how many brews I'll get out of a d size but I reckon I must be way ahead.

 

[manticle]

If using a correct pitch rate, as calculated using something like the brewer's friend calc (link), is oxygen required?

From what I can gather here, oxygen helps with yeast growth. From what I can gather on the calc, the pitch rates are based on what pro brewers use to minimise the amount of growth required and start the beer off right.

I'm taking a more active interest in pitch rates at the moment, and oxygen may well come down the track, but keen to get people's thoughts.

(Apologies if I've missed discussion on this, but in the last year since I first commented on this thread, the page count has increased somewhat!)

Different horses in the same race (although both can be winners).

Like whirlfloc/brewbrite and whirlpooling both contribute to separating hot break from main wort but in different ways. One is good, both are better.

 

[Rocker1986]

Got an oxy cylinder on what BOC gas call a 'D' plan. $79/yr. pick up at the start full, then another refill within that first year, then one refill each year from then on. I was paying $36 each for those little red cylinders from the auto shop. Not sure how many brews I'll get out of a d size but I reckon I must be way ahead.

I'm on that same plan, and I'm still using the original cylinder I got. I'm not sure how accurate the regulator is in terms of how much is left in it, but it started at 20,000 kpa and is now just under the 15,000 mark. I've probably used it on 16-18 batches so far.

 

[pcqypcqy]

I'm on that same plan, and I'm still using the original cylinder I got. I'm not sure how accurate the regulator is in terms of how much is left in it, but it started at 20,000 kpa and is now just under the 15,000 mark. I've probably used it on 16-18 batches so far.

It'll be liquid, so the high pressure reg will just be a measure of temperature as long as there is any liquid left. Only when the liquid is gone and the pressure starts to drop off will this change significantly. Best way to measure is to weigh it.

But, from what the numbers above say, you should get years worth of brews out of it.

 

[pcqypcqy]

Depends what you mean by required.

You can make good beer without oxygen. You can make better beer with oxygen.

Your choice.

Noted. I've been making decent beer so far without worrying about it, but that's what happens when you lurk here long enough is you start buying shit.

Pro brewers dose oxygen.

I'm sure they do. My reference to 'pro' is referring to the brewers friend calculator and the supporting info. The pro brewers you are referring to might not be using the pitch rates recommended therein.

Different horses in the same race (although both can be winners).

Like whirlfloc/brewbrite and whirlpooling both contribute to separating hot break from main wort but in different ways. One is good, both are better.

Cheers, this is what I'm thinking. I can work on pitch rates without investing in more equipment at the moment, so I'll concentrate on that. But having priced up the oxygen set ups you guys are using, and the deal from bunnings, I suspect I'll be jumping onto oxygen before long.

 

[Stouter]

I'm on that same plan, and I'm still using the original cylinder I got. I'm not sure how accurate the regulator is in terms of how much is left in it, but it started at 20,000 kpa and is now just under the 15,000 mark. I've probably used it on 16-18 batches so far.

That's great.
How long have you had it for, is it still in the first year?
They told me if it was getting close to the end of the year to bring it in for a swap even if it was half full, so I still get my 'one/yr'.
There appears to be an improvement in my ferments with the oxy addition. I recently split a Wyeast 1084 pack into 4 and built each back up into 1.5L starters. The two batches this far of the same stout recipe have come out the same as when I used a full pack on a single batch without oxy. Each ferment at 18d, and they take around 8-10 days.
Used the oxy first time with some US-05 last week and waiting for that to finish, that's a smash recipe and should work out well.

 

[malt junkie]

Your delusional if you think pro's are pitching less than a home brewer does, or even what an online calculator tells you. Most of us have maybe $60 of ingredients in the kettle. Pro's have thousands $$ in ingredients in a batch, and they have to sell it or explain to the ATO where that beer went; about 3 days of paper work and the ATO won't put up with a brewer tipping batch after batch. In fact I know of one brewery that tipped the batch and paid the excise on it. Pro's ride very close to the edge of over pitching, and they still O2 their wort.

 

[pcqypcqy]

Your delusional if you think pro's are pitching less than a home brewer does, or even what an online calculator tells you. Most of us have maybe $60 of ingredients in the kettle. Pro's have thousands $$ in ingredients in a batch, and they have to sell it or explain to the ATO where that beer went; about 3 days of paper work and the ATO won't put up with a brewer tipping batch after batch. In fact I know of one brewery that tipped the batch and paid the excise on it. Pro's ride very close to the edge of over pitching, and they still O2 their wort.

Where have I said pro brewers pitch less than homebrewers? I'm just trying to pull apart (if I can) the issues about pitch rates an oxygen dosage. The real point of my question is: Is it worth focussing on one without the other?

I agree with you that proper pro brewers will do all of what you said because of the commercial implications. Though from the tastes of their beer, there must be a few 'pro' brewers who put little or no effort in pitch rates and oxygen. I like to think of these people as brewery owners, rather than brewers.

Anyway, my point is that the calculator is based on supporting information which suggested that the target pitch rates they have used and the papers that they have based their numbers on are aimed at limiting the yeast growth phase and jumping straight into full blown fermentation.

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

It'll be liquid, so the high pressure reg will just be a measure of temperature as long as there is any liquid left. Only when the liquid is gone and the pressure starts to drop off will this change significantly. Best way to measure is to weigh it.

But, from what the numbers above say, you should get years worth of brews out of it.

No it won't sorry. That only applies to CO2 and LPG as they are liquifiable under pressure.

Nitrogen, Oxygen, Argon, Helium etc are all simply gases in cylinders. The high pressure gauge IS a reading of contents left for those gases.

 

[Rocker1986]

That's great.
How long have you had it for, is it still in the first year?
They told me if it was getting close to the end of the year to bring it in for a swap even if it was half full, so I still get my 'one/yr'.
There appears to be an improvement in my ferments with the oxy addition. I recently split a Wyeast 1084 pack into 4 and built each back up into 1.5L starters. The two batches this far of the same stout recipe have come out the same as when I used a full pack on a single batch without oxy. Each ferment at 18d, and they take around 8-10 days.
Used the oxy first time with some US-05 last week and waiting for that to finish, that's a smash recipe and should work out well.

November last year I got it mate. Been in a bit of a brewing lull lately though due to moving house. Starting to get back into the schedule now.

 

[pcqypcqy]

No it won't sorry. That only applies to CO2 and LPG as they are liquifiable under pressure.

Nitrogen, Oxygen, Argon, Helium etc are all simply gases in cylinders. The high pressure gauge IS a reading of contents left for those gases.

My bad.

Though all gases are liquifiable under pressure*, it's just a question of what pressure. Hadn't realiased that oxygen wasn't bottled as a liquid.

* edit: relearning about triple points and phase diagrams. Been a while. I'll shut up now.

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Back on topic... one pro brewer I was lucky to be there from start to finish on a brew day looked to base pitch rates more on the commercially available yeast pack size, in this case was US05 dry block of 500g. I unfortunately can't remember the size of the fermenter which they had, might've been pitching into 1000L in a 2000L FV and then dumping another 1000L wort into the FV a couple days later as the brew rig limit was 1000L. Surprisingly this converts to exactly 11.5grams per 23L, so based on that a similar pitching rate to as recommended by Safale on the packet.
They rehydrated too, but that's another debate...