Fermzilla

[TheBeerBaron]

I got one of the first ones too big dent and stress fractures, just because it says Fermzilla doesn't mean only those with Fermzilla can reply. Its not only those that can't take pressure there are loads of folk who can't get the Fermzilla to hold pressure.

I seem to remember you bought yours second hand ? So you can't blame the dent on KL. Every chance it was dented by the previous owner. And if you did buy it new, and it arrived dented, there's every chance they would have sent out a replacement.

All these explosions, I would have to guess are user error. They're pressure rated sure, but not infinite pressure. So if you've blocked the PRV or shut the dump valve while active fermentation is going on, they'll likely pop. There must be thousands upon thousands of FermZilla in the wild and most people love them with no major issues.

Personally, I am waiting for feedback on the Fermenter King aka the second coming of Christ in PET fermenter form. I know KK loaded up Dr Hans with a bunch of free gear but after the first look he posted 5 months ago there has been crickets. No one else seems to have any video reviews out either. So either there's problems or he's too happy brewing with the FermZilla's he's bought/received.

 

[awfulknauful]

I seem to remember you bought yours second hand ? So you can't blame the dent on KL. Every chance it was dented by the previous owner. And if you did buy it new, and it arrived dented, there's every chance they would have sent out a replacement.

All these explosions, I would have to guess are user error. They're pressure rated sure, but not infinite pressure. So if you've blocked the PRV or shut the dump valve while active fermentation is going on, they'll likely pop. There must be thousands upon thousands of FermZilla in the wild and most people love them with no major issues.

Personally, I am waiting for feedback on the Fermenter King aka the second coming of Christ in PET fermenter form. I know KK loaded up Dr Hans with a bunch of free gear but after the first look he posted 5 months ago there has been crickets. No one else seems to have any video reviews out either. So either there's problems or he's too happy brewing with the FermZilla's he's bought/received.

You remember wrong, unused, and still in the box so not second hand. Guessing whether it is user error doesn't come into it, there is a Swedish video which the body blew apart at 10 PSI.
I would say KK did give out free gear for review as did KL, theirs didn't come out with flying colours either, they had to send him a second one. I have the original Fermentasaurus and the Fermenter King, best safety feature on the FK is it will just blow back into the main body if there is any user error.

 

[TheBeerBaron]

unused, and still in the box so not second hand

And you bought it from KegLand direct? Even un-used, it's still second hand in that case. KL or any supplier wouldn't warrant a dent in that scenario.

They both gave him free gear but I seems most of the reviews have come and gone as you say, the Fermzilla, All rounder he's done snub nose, and the King Jr but the full sized Fermenter King is MIA from any feedback. It seems odd to me.

I'm not saying the Fermenter King is a bad product, but just looking at it, keeping the top opening the same size and keeping the little bottle and little opening down the bottom the only real 'upgrade' is the plunger valve. So if you already owned a FermZilla or even an Fermentasaurus I can't see why you would buy a Fermenter King. And due to a lack of user reviews, especially on YouTube which is where a lot of my research for buying new gear is done I probably wouldn't buy one if upgrading from a traditional fermenter

Like I said, I am keen to see any user review vids but especially from the Dr because he's had it for months

 

[awfulknauful]

And you bought it from KegLand direct? Even un-used, it's still second hand in that case. KL or any supplier wouldn't warrant a dent in that scenario.

They both gave him free gear but I seems most of the reviews have come and gone as you say, the Fermzilla, All rounder he's done snub nose, and the King Jr but the full sized Fermenter King is MIA from any feedback. It seems odd to me.

I'm not saying the Fermenter King is a bad product, but just looking at it, keeping the top opening the same size and keeping the little bottle and little opening down the bottom the only real 'upgrade' is the plunger valve. So if you already owned a FermZilla or even an Fermentasaurus I can't see why you would buy a Fermenter King. And due to a lack of user reviews, especially on YouTube which is where a lot of my research for buying new gear is done I probably wouldn't buy one if upgrading from a traditional fermenter

Like I said, I am keen to see any user review vids but especially from the Dr because he's had it for months

Been quite a few sold, the bottle at the bottom I doubt many people are using that. I have the elbow to dump out of into a bucket, another good feature of the FK, plus no big butterfly valve to clean. I wouldn't be surprised if KL use that on the Fermzilla 2

 

[Edward Rowe]

I got one of the first ones too big dent and stress fractures, just because it says Fermzilla doesn't mean only those with Fermzilla can reply. Its not only those that can't take pressure there are loads of folk who can't get the Fermzilla to hold pressure.

Cool story bro!

 

[awfulknauful]

True story bro!

Fixed that for ya.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Fixed that for ya.

Ignore him mate, he's a troll look at all his posts not one useful one amongst them.

 

[TheBeerBaron]

Been quite a few sold, the bottle at the bottom I doubt many people are using that. I have the elbow to dump out of into a bucket, another good feature of the FK, plus no big butterfly valve to clean. I wouldn't be surprised if KL use that on the Fermzilla 2

Quite a few sold yet essentially zero video reviews? Considering the Home brew community is pretty active on YouTube I would think good, bad or ugly there should be at least some out there? maybe you need to make one!? gap in the market.

If you're only using it to dump yeast through an elbow do you use the plunger? or have a valve on the end of the elbow? I would think the plunger is not ideal for this use which then makes it's inclusion entirely superfluous.

The butterfly valve is no more cleaning than the plunger? so that is a moot point. Also both butterfly valve & plunger seem fairly simple to clean so I doubt that's really a negative.

Also @awfulknauful just to confirm, you did buy your FermZilla un-used but second hand?

 

[Meddo]

If anyone's interested in one person's view...

I've got both a 27L Fermzilla and a G3 Fermenter King. Both have pros and cons for my usage, which is not the same as EVERYONE's usage.

Fermzilla:

• Large opening at the top means it's easy to get into for manual cleaning if that's your thing (it's not my thing, but I haven't finished rebuilding my CIP rig during a brewery upgrade so it's handy right now).
• The cone seal gets sediment between it and the vessel body, so CIP is not going to be effective regardless.
• Smaller - pro or con depending on usage. I'm taking a lot of samples (pint sized samples at times...) through the fermentation and conditioning process and 27L is a bit limiting for me, but it is smaller and easier to maneuver.
• Carb caps on the lid, don't like them, pain in the arse to clean and not interchangeable with anything. Would rather more standard fittings (cornelius keg posts).
• Larger opening means a larger glycol coil is an option relative to FK. I haven't used this yet because I buggered up the lid trying to install the temp probe and haven't bothered trying again in a new one - put it in the fridge instead. But larger coil means more even distribution of coolant throughout the body of the fermenter.
• I really, really don't rate the butterfly valve at the bottom for MY usage pattern. I prefer a more traditional continuous dumping of trub / yeast which can't be achieved with a butterfly valve on such a small vessel. It works well enough with the collection bottle for taking the initial 1L of crud out early in the ferment but I have no desire to reattach the collection bottle once it's been removed the first time during fermentation. If Kegland ever make a tri-clamp adapter for the base then this problem disappears.
• Surprisingly the shallower cone doesn't seem to hang up as much sediment as I thought it would. Thought it was marketing fluff but maybe not.
• The rigid collection bottle is a real risk. Yes, if it blows it's overwhelmingly likely due to user error, but that doesn't make it right. Heirachy of controls says procedure is the least effective (aside from PPE). It should either be changed to a shatterproof material or include some means of pressure relief like a burst disk.

G3 FK:

• Larger 35L vessel suits my needs better than the FZ, since my batch sizes are 20L (not 19L) and as I said I take quite a few samples and also tend to drink carbonated beer from the vessel for a little while before kegging. YMMV.
• Much more suited to CIP with the 1/2" BSP through-fitting in the lid.
• Smaller lid opening means that it's harder to get inside to manually clean, and there's less room on the lid to mount fittings. The cornelius-type posts are great in that I can convert them to 5/8" with adapters (everything except FVs in my brewery is commercial type fittings) but if I do that I can't fully unscrew the lid collar to remove it for adding drauflassen wort. I've asked a mate to turn down a pair of those adapters to hopefully get clearance for the collar so fingers crossed, but for the time being I need to keep using the ball lock posts unfortunately.
• Tri clamp adapter on the cone. Perfect for me (although would prefer 1.5" rather than 2" for homebrewing scale), tri clamp reducer, elbow, valve, great. Except the adapter is really easy to knock off the cone piece. KK has sent me a replacement adapter which they think will work better, so again fingers crossed when I receive it that it holds better. But having this adapter is the big win item for my usage.
• The cooling coil is too small for cold conditioning, at least in Brisbane ambient conditions. In February I couldn't get my lager below 6 degrees before turning it into an eishelles with big chunks of ice on the coil. This is in the insulated jacket and trialing various coolant temps between -11 to -1. There's probably not much that can be done about this as the size of the coil is restricted by the size of the top opening. As an alternative I'm currently trialing a cooling wrap around the outside, which I've got high hopes for (but $$$).
• I slightly prefer the fully enclosed jacket to the FZ's bottomless one.
• I'm not at all a fan of the plunge valve (if I had to choose I'd probably just take this over the large FZ butterfly, but I prefer not to use either), but given I'm using a tri clamp valve off the base the plunge valve is unnecessary so I just removed it and capped the bulkhead fitting in the lid for my current brew. Not sure that tethering the dip-tube float to the plunge valve really adds much, ambivalent here but probably a larger tether ring for a bit more freedom might work better, it seemed to hang up a bit when I used it.

At the moment I'm more likely to buy another G3 than FZ, but that depends on how successful the replacement tri clamp adapter is and also my trial of the cooling wrap (not a KK product). I'm picking up some valveless fermenters to simplify my brewing process (in terms of time spent on cleaning and sanitisation) for ales after a long period doing lagered beers, I've gone for the all rounder over snub nose purely for the larger opening making them easier to clean by hand. If the larger opening of the 60L FK / snub nose made it into the smaller vessels then I'd have likely gone down that path but it doesn't sound like that can be done unfortunately.

Happy to take any questions. Not affiliated with KK or KL, don't know either of them personally, I'm in Brisbane and don't give a **** about the politics.

 

[awfulknauful]

The butterfly valve does need stripping and cleaning, I wouldn't say every use but every 3 or 4 I clean mine on the Fermentasaurus that often that means taking it apart. Not hard to clean either vessel soak overnight with some sodium perc then rinse.
Yes I got mine off a forum member who bought two but wanted one of each, box had never been opened.

 

[TheBeerBaron]

The butterfly valve does need stripping and cleaning, I wouldn't say every use but every 3 or 4 I clean mine on the Fermentasaurus that often that means taking it apart. Not hard to clean either vessel soak overnight with some sodium perc then rinse.
Yes I got mine off a forum member who bought two but wanted one of each, box had never been opened.

The plunger itself still has an o-ring in it which could harbour crud in the groove? so you need to pick that out and clean behind each time? also, the bottom housing would need to be dismantled occasionally for cleaning on the G3 as well. So we're splitting hairs here really on which is worse / better.

@Meddo 's reply is nicely detailed and goes to show neither are perfect for everyone. As I said, I already have a FZ so the features of the G3 aren't worth changing for. I know when I was starting out which was not too long ago, the FZ was yet to be released so I held off buying a Fermentasaurus because the FZ had genuine upgrades. I still like being able to purge my dry hops via the bottom container however so I think I would probably still go FZ if I was in the market with fresh eyes again now. And to my previous point, if I went out researching, I would have bugger all to look at of the G3 to sway me it's direction.

I think the assertion that the FZ is somehow prone to exploding or somehow not as 'safe' as the G3 is definitely a stretch of the imagination though. There's so many variables in play when that happens.

@awfulknauful I don't think it is fair to call out KL for your FZ being dented, there's no way to guarantee the member you bought it off didn't accidentally do it. Or the original courier.

 

[CKK]

If anyone's interested in one person's view...

I've got both a 27L Fermzilla and a G3 Fermenter King. Both have pros and cons for my usage, which is not the same as EVERYONE's usage.

Fermzilla:

• Large opening at the top means it's easy to get into for manual cleaning if that's your thing (it's not my thing, but I haven't finished rebuilding my CIP rig during a brewery upgrade so it's handy right now).
• The cone seal gets sediment between it and the vessel body, so CIP is not going to be effective regardless.
• Smaller - pro or con depending on usage. I'm taking a lot of samples (pint sized samples at times...) through the fermentation and conditioning process and 27L is a bit limiting for me, but it is smaller and easier to maneuver.
• Carb caps on the lid, don't like them, pain in the arse to clean and not interchangeable with anything. Would rather more standard fittings (cornelius keg posts).
• Larger opening means a larger glycol coil is an option relative to FK. I haven't used this yet because I buggered up the lid trying to install the temp probe and haven't bothered trying again in a new one - put it in the fridge instead. But larger coil means more even distribution of coolant throughout the body of the fermenter.
• I really, really don't rate the butterfly valve at the bottom for MY usage pattern. I prefer a more traditional continuous dumping of trub / yeast which can't be achieved with a butterfly valve on such a small vessel. It works well enough with the collection bottle for taking the initial 1L of crud out early in the ferment but I have no desire to reattach the collection bottle once it's been removed the first time during fermentation. If Kegland ever make a tri-clamp adapter for the base then this problem disappears.
• Surprisingly the shallower cone doesn't seem to hang up as much sediment as I thought it would. Thought it was marketing fluff but maybe not.
• The rigid collection bottle is a real risk. Yes, if it blows it's overwhelmingly likely due to user error, but that doesn't make it right. Heirachy of controls says procedure is the least effective (aside from PPE). It should either be changed to a shatterproof material or include some means of pressure relief like a burst disk.

G3 FK:

• Larger 35L vessel suits my needs better than the FZ, since my batch sizes are 20L (not 19L) and as I said I take quite a few samples and also tend to drink carbonated beer from the vessel for a little while before kegging. YMMV.
• Much more suited to CIP with the 1/2" BSP through-fitting in the lid.
• Smaller lid opening means that it's harder to get inside to manually clean, and there's less room on the lid to mount fittings. The cornelius-type posts are great in that I can convert them to 5/8" with adapters (everything except FVs in my brewery is commercial type fittings) but if I do that I can't fully unscrew the lid collar to remove it for adding drauflassen wort. I've asked a mate to turn down a pair of those adapters to hopefully get clearance for the collar so fingers crossed, but for the time being I need to keep using the ball lock posts unfortunately.
• Tri clamp adapter on the cone. Perfect for me (although would prefer 1.5" rather than 2" for homebrewing scale), tri clamp reducer, elbow, valve, great. Except the adapter is really easy to knock off the cone piece. KK has sent me a replacement adapter which they think will work better, so again fingers crossed when I receive it that it holds better. But having this adapter is the big win item for my usage.
• The cooling coil is too small for cold conditioning, at least in Brisbane ambient conditions. In February I couldn't get my lager below 6 degrees before turning it into an eishelles with big chunks of ice on the coil. This is in the insulated jacket and trialing various coolant temps between -11 to -1. There's probably not much that can be done about this as the size of the coil is restricted by the size of the top opening. As an alternative I'm currently trialing a cooling wrap around the outside, which I've got high hopes for (but $$$).
• I slightly prefer the fully enclosed jacket to the FZ's bottomless one.
• I'm not at all a fan of the plunge valve (if I had to choose I'd probably just take this over the large FZ butterfly, but I prefer not to use either), but given I'm using a tri clamp valve off the base the plunge valve is unnecessary so I just removed it and capped the bulkhead fitting in the lid for my current brew. Not sure that tethering the dip-tube float to the plunge valve really adds much, ambivalent here but probably a larger tether ring for a bit more freedom might work better, it seemed to hang up a bit when I used it.

At the moment I'm more likely to buy another G3 than FZ, but that depends on how successful the replacement tri clamp adapter is and also my trial of the cooling wrap (not a KK product). I'm picking up some valveless fermenters to simplify my brewing process (in terms of time spent on cleaning and sanitisation) for ales after a long period doing lagered beers, I've gone for the all rounder over snub nose purely for the larger opening making them easier to clean by hand. If the larger opening of the 60L FK / snub nose made it into the smaller vessels then I'd have likely gone down that path but it doesn't sound like that can be done unfortunately.

Happy to take any questions. Not affiliated with KK or KL, don't know either of them personally, I'm in Brisbane and don't give a **** about the politics.

One of the most important differences is being missed here by most of the posters. That is the tank quality. The Fermenter Tanks from KK are made using the patented CYPET process which does not reheat the PET but makes the tank in one process. You can see the difference by looking at the micro cracks and stretch marks on other tanks where the neck stays cool when the rest of the preform body is reheated. This does not happen with the single stage CYPET process. Each of the tanks is pressure tested to 5 bar. We have never had one explode and no doubt users have made an error or two. The tanks also have very good clarity and integrity. As we do not want users to put their hands inside the vessel the 35 litre tank neck size will stay the same. The 60 litre unit does have a larger opening and integrated handles. It will be on the market soon. The reason why you might not have seen many people talk about it is that we are introducing the products slowly to see what issues might arise if any. Like most new things there were a couple and so we addressed these rather than just rushing this out and then having problems on our hands resulting in a bad reputation. The plunger valve is much easier to sanitise than a butterfly valve. You can even stick it in a dish washer. It also prevents any excess pressure from the collection bottle to cause that to rupture. So there is no bang for your buck but you will have a good fermenter which you can trust.

 

[Meddo]

One of the most important differences is being missed here by most of the posters. That is the tank quality. The Fermenter Tanks from KK are made using the patented CYPET process which does not reheat the PET but makes the tank in one process. You can see the difference by looking at the micro cracks and stretch marks on other tanks where the neck stays cool when the rest of the preform body is reheated. This does not happen with the single stage CYPET process. Each of the tanks is pressure tested to 5 bar. We have never had one explode and no doubt users have made an error or two. The tanks also have very good clarity and integrity. As we do not want users to put their hands inside the vessel the 35 litre tank neck size will stay the same. The 60 litre unit does have a larger opening and integrated handles. It will be on the market soon. The reason why you might not have seen many people talk about it is that we are introducing the products slowly to see what issues might arise if any. Like most new things there were a couple and so we addressed these rather than just rushing this out and then having problems on our hands resulting in a bad reputation. The plunger valve is much easier to sanitise than a butterfly valve. You can even stick it in a dish washer. It also prevents any excess pressure from the collection bottle to cause that to rupture. So there is no bang for your buck but you will have a good fermenter which you can trust.

Why do you not want people putting their hands inside the vessel? I assume you don't expect everyone to CIP so is there a recommended cleaning method that doesn't involve scrubbing? I must say I probably skipped reading the instruction book so might have missed something...

Cheers

 

[Edward Rowe]

One of the most important differences is being missed here by most of the posters. That is the tank quality. The Fermenter Tanks from KK are made using the patented CYPET process which does not reheat the PET but makes the tank in one process. You can see the difference by looking at the micro cracks and stretch marks on other tanks where the neck stays cool when the rest of the preform body is reheated. This does not happen with the single stage CYPET process. Each of the tanks is pressure tested to 5 bar. We have never had one explode and no doubt users have made an error or two. The tanks also have very good clarity and integrity. As we do not want users to put their hands inside the vessel the 35 litre tank neck size will stay the same. The 60 litre unit does have a larger opening and integrated handles. It will be on the market soon. The reason why you might not have seen many people talk about it is that we are introducing the products slowly to see what issues might arise if any. Like most new things there were a couple and so we addressed these rather than just rushing this out and then having problems on our hands resulting in a bad reputation. The plunger valve is much easier to sanitise than a butterfly valve. You can even stick it in a dish washer. It also prevents any excess pressure from the collection bottle to cause that to rupture. So there is no bang for your buck but you will have a good fermenter which you can trust.

Awesome, now create your own thread.

 

[awfulknauful]

The plunger itself still has an o-ring in it which could harbour crud in the groove? so you need to pick that out and clean behind each time? also, the bottom housing would need to be dismantled occasionally for cleaning on the G3 as well. So we're splitting hairs here really on which is worse / better.

@Meddo 's reply is nicely detailed and goes to show neither are perfect for everyone. As I said, I already have a FZ so the features of the G3 aren't worth changing for. I know when I was starting out which was not too long ago, the FZ was yet to be released so I held off buying a Fermentasaurus because the FZ had genuine upgrades. I still like being able to purge my dry hops via the bottom container however so I think I would probably still go FZ if I was in the market with fresh eyes again now. And to my previous point, if I went out researching, I would have bugger all to look at of the G3 to sway me it's direction.

I think the assertion that the FZ is somehow prone to exploding or somehow not as 'safe' as the G3 is definitely a stretch of the imagination though. There's so many variables in play when that happens.

@awfulknauful I don't think it is fair to call out KL for your FZ being dented, there's no way to guarantee the member you bought it off didn't accidentally do it. Or the original courier.

Everyone has a choice, we have different trains of thought I don't hold that against anyone we are all different.
Cleaning a plunger base and O ring would surely be a lot easier than taking apart the large butterfly valve.

Unscrewing the bottom fixtures are easily done, taking the top lid of is easily done too, no belt wrench required. Wouldn't say we are splitting hairs. Yes Meddos reply is excellent, there will always be differences which does not suit everyone, the difference for me is the simplicity of the use and dismantling of the FK. I am sure there are users of the FermZilla who like taking apart butterfly valves, but that does nothing for me.
You can put dry hops in the bottom of the FK unit but why bother not only with the FK but with the FermZilla, depressurise take the top off and drop them in, there isn't going to be an exodus of CO2. Then again on the FermZilla it would involve a wrestling match with the belt wrench and the body of the FermZilla.
I don't think it is a stretch of the imagination about the exploding bodies or bottles, plenty of evidence out there, and the guy who got a neck wound wasn't imagining it either.
Doesn't matter how many variables are at play, even if it is user error there is still liability on the manufacturers part.
As for the purchase of my FermZilla I got it off Bbowzky1. Two boxes siting in his brewery I just picked one up both were undamaged boxes and both unopened he didn't push one to me, it was my choice, and he's no Derren Brown.
Also when he read my post he did message me offering to take it back, but appart from me there were a few of the early ones with dents. WEAL and Farsideofcrazy did mention it could have been trapped air inside the mould on the machine but it definitely wouldn't pop out.
I am glad you haven't had any problems and you get many years out of using it

Cheers Tim

 

[awfulknauful]

Awesome, now create your own thread.

He's already got one KK - 'Fermentasaurus' conical PET fermenter and Keg Land has been on that without anyone caring.

 

[CKK]

Why do you not want people putting their hands inside the vessel? I assume you don't expect everyone to CIP so is there a recommended cleaning method that doesn't involve scrubbing? I must say I probably skipped reading the instruction book so might have missed something...

Cheers

We found that we could clean it fairly well with Atomic 15 and are just concerned once folks put their hands in then small scratches could be the result.

 

[pauly]

@pauly don't forget the magnet method for your dry hopping, it's great for dropping the hops after high krausen but can also be used to pull the hops up out of the beer.

The only reason I haven't tried this is that I like to hop loose and a lot. I'm not sure I could rig it in a way that 200g of hops are sitting there waiting to drop from some kind of net.

Once KL come out with the 5L PET bottles I am going to try making a massive hop tea and transfer it when kegging.

 

[Trippinonprozac]

@pauly don't forget the magnet method for your dry hopping, it's great for dropping the hops after high krausen but can also be used to pull the hops up out of the beer.

So you leave your hops on a bag in primary for up to a week or more waiting to drop them in? Wouldn’t you want them fresh out of the freezer?

 

[Vic]

So you leave your hops on a bag in primary for up to a week or more waiting to drop them in? Wouldn’t you want them fresh out of the freezer?

Frozen hops as opposed to fresh cones or pellets. Interesting? Maybe a new thread here.