Fermzilla

[Crusty]

No it doesn't?

12 psig at 20C is 26.7psia at 293.15K
5C is 278.15K

The absolute pressure will reduce proportionally to the absolute temperature. (278.15/293.15) * 26.7 = 25.3 psia = 10.63 psig

In reality you'll see it read a tiny bit lower than that after cold crash - the increased solubility of CO2 in cold beer will see some of it enter solution, and there's a tiny bit of volume change attributable to the contraction of the liquid as it cools. All the same, you cold crash a beer at 12 psig you're going to be seeing 9+ PSI, not "about 1PSI".

Interesting.
All the charts I've seen everywhere don't reflect on that calculation but it makes perfect sense.

 

[Grok]

Given the details that you shared in your earlier post, I would be thinking that it is a combination of the cleaning chemical that you are using, and more importantly the exposure time.
I don't mean this in a rude way, but have you actually read the manual for the product that you are using? It very clearly what products they recommend, and maximum exposure times

OK, lets see, yes I have RTFM, and guess what those products are if you care to look under the covers!

• Super Kill Ethyl Sanitizer Spray : basically ethanol/alcohol solution......hand sanitizer solution of which we are all familiar with now.
• StellarSan: "Phosphoric Acid based cleaner"
• StellarClean (PBW): "is a buffered alkaline detergent", "pH of 1% SOLUTION: 11-12", "Silicates, Oxidizing agents, Phosphates, and Surfactants"

StellarClean is looking very similar to TSP that is also 11-12 pH and is essentially a buffered alkaline solution....hmmm......., I wonder if it's the same stuff with a bit of detergent (surfactant) thrown in there, could it be that they don't actually don't make any of this ****, but just buy bulk base materials and repackage stuff, as most shops do, and have the cheek to claim their stuff is soooo much better!
I never stated I do extended soaking, others have though.
But in all this, nobody is answering my question, just going down a sidetrack "thinking" maybe because I don't use the companies "propriety products" like all the other sheeple, that this must be the problem!
I have had a close look at this plastic with magnifier glasses and it has distinct blemishes. What I want to know is why some parts of it are completely smooth as I would expect the plastic to be for this purpose, and some (most) of the rest is pitted and has "lines" in the surface!
All I am asking is others have a fkn look and tell me ffs!

 

[Grmblz]

All I am asking is others have a fkn look and tell me ffs!

I commented mid last year about a patchy "cloudiness" on the KL Q&A thread, never got a response, and it's still there and I can't get in to scrub it, vessel still works and hasn't exploded yet, only had PBW and starsan in it, but PBW at longer than the recommended exposure times, not overnight just 4 hrs, Kee says 20 min's is recommended but doesn't give any explanation, and good luck getting an answer, too many "embarrassing" questions just gets you banned from their thread.
So to answer your fkn question yes I did look and posted my observations, which I have repeated here for your benefit.
fwiw I think it's a quality issue, why are some areas cloudy/rough when other areas (exposed to the same compounds) are clear/smooth, well it aint fkn rocket science is it!
I have no idea about the intricacies of PET but would bet a pound to a piece of **** that there's "cheap" PET and there's "expensive" PET, guess what your fermzilla is made from, would be interesting to see if any of the PET whatevers from the other team have similar issues.
Don't bother one less I'm over the fan boi crap.

 

[pauly]

I have purchased a second all-rounder with the intention of setting up the dry hop in it and using the co2 of the ferment to purge the secondary. I waited until the ferment had been going a little before adding the hops into the secondary to minimize the o2 contact as much as practical, but I thought it better to get them in as early as possible as this allows more co2 purge the secondary before I do the transfer.

The reason I am doing this over using the original FZ is that I think it will result in quicker and easier cleaning and generally less messing about, especially since I have a bucket blaster (which is awesome BTW).

I will report back in a few weeks as to how it tastes compared to the last one I did where I threw the hops in through the top of the all rounder (same wort and dry hop).

 

[awfulknauful]

 

[mje1980]

Plastic plus pressure plus big valve at the bottom is not a good idea no matter who makes them. If I was interested in pressure fermenting, which I’m not as plain old atmospheric has worked well for a very long time, it would be stainless, regardless of kegking/kegland dibbydobbing/nernernernerring

 

[BKBrews]

I've done 5 batches in my fermzilla and while I haven't had any of the issues with it not sealing or anything like that, I've just sold it to move back to something more simple until I can get some unitanks. The collection container is an absolute pain in the ass. I am a convert to pressure transfers though, so I will either swap to the G3 and use SS brewtech tri-clover elbow and butterfly valve with the tri-clover adaptor (I already have the parts), or will move to the all rounder and continue using a blow off, with the pressure kit only for pressure transfer purposes. I only bought the FZ because I wanted to dump a lot of the cold break prior to pitching (using counterflow chiller), but haven't actually even done that once - most of the time the collection container only half fills for some reason, and then the rest is left in the main body. Yeast has been eating it all up anyway, so it hasn't been a concern.

 

[Grmblz]

There's obviously issues with the fermzilla that KL refuse to admit or address, they changed the design but are not man enough to admit it (too many warranty replacements maybe) buy one but do your due diligence, in other words Google fermzilla failures.

 

[onemorecell]

Plastic plus pressure plus big valve at the bottom is not a good idea no matter who makes them. If I was interested in pressure fermenting, which I’m not as plain old atmospheric has worked well for a very long time, it would be stainless, regardless of kegking/kegland dibbydobbing/nernernernerring

it's not that much more expensive to get a 26L kegmenter. i really dunno why they aren't more popular...

 

[Ballaratguy]

I've done 5 batches in my fermzilla and while I haven't had any of the issues with it not sealing or anything like that, I've just sold it to move back to something more simple until I can get some unitanks. The collection container is an absolute pain in the ass. I am a convert to pressure transfers though, so I will either swap to the G3 and use SS brewtech tri-clover elbow and butterfly valve with the tri-clover adaptor (I already have the parts), or will move to the all rounder and continue using a blow off, with the pressure kit only for pressure transfer purposes. I only bought the FZ because I wanted to dump a lot of the cold break prior to pitching (using counterflow chiller), but haven't actually even done that once - most of the time the collection container only half fills for some reason, and then the rest is left in the main body. Yeast has been eating it all up anyway, so it hasn't been a concern.

I’ve bought the G3 and love it. I’m also considering getting another one
The only downside that I have experienced is being able to get the bottom of it to seal so it doesn’t leak under pressure (arthritis in my hands). I also think that if they were made with a thread on the bottom to be able th screw a 2” tri clamp into would be a vast improvement

 

[enoch]

it's not that much more expensive to get a 26L kegmenter. i really dunno why they aren't more popular...

I’ve got a 50 litre from kking and a 58 litre from kland and used a 60 litre all rounder for the first yesterday.
Why the all rounder? It’s so wonderfully light and you can see where the float is. I’ve had a few brews where you think you’re done and discover 5 litres of beer in the bottom. It is a bit big for my fridge but one of the pet bottle t pieces as a 90 degree adapter fixed that.

 

[frosty3]

View attachment 118534

I’m glad to see your back! How is the horticulture endives going??? Have you managed to view any other YouTube videos relating to the Fermzilla?? I remember last time you where having trouble and could only find the one by Doctor Hans Premium Light.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

I’ve bought the G3 and love it. I’m also considering getting another one
The only downside that I have experienced is being able to get the bottom of it to seal so it doesn’t leak under pressure (arthritis in my hands). I also think that if they were made with a thread on the bottom to be able th screw a 2” tri clamp into would be a vast improvement

Is there not a fitting for a tri clamp, pretty sure I have seen one in the promotional video.

 

[Ballaratguy]

Is there not a fitting for a tri clamp, pretty sure I have seen one in the promotional video.

Yes there is but it screws into the bottom seal
I was thinking that a bsp male thread moulded into the bottom and you could then attach any amount of goodies to the bottom For yeast / hop collection. You could also use it for hop injection
I’m being selfish here just thinking of being able to make it leak proof (for my arthritic hands) and also would make cleaning a lot easier

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Would a strap wrench work from Bunnings, I use that on my Chinese kegs/casks.

 

[Ballaratguy]

No because the nut is about 12 ml thick

 

[onemorecell]

I’ve had a few brews where you think you’re done and discover 5 litres of beer in the bottom.

man that has pissed me off to no end. I think I've got it fixed now by using a regular dip tube with the end chopped off - but damn those floating dip tubes are a pain in the ass. Demoralising to see so much waste

 

[Fro-Daddy]

I've just ordered the floating dip tube filter, hoping that will help with getting the most out and also when doing large dry hopping.

 

[Grmblz]

man that has pissed me off to no end. I think I've got it fixed now by using a regular dip tube with the end chopped off - but damn those floating dip tubes are a pain in the ass. Demoralising to see so much waste

Yeh well, in the words of Dr "I've just taken my med's" I've got my Hanzs on it, and remembering that this is the Fermzilla thread, according to him it's obviously operator error, but take a look at my FKJ (fermenter king junior from KK) here only as a reference btw, may I suggest that if you have difficulty with a Fermzilla then try an alternative fermenter/keg.
fwiw this keg blew last night, it wasn't shaken, tapped on the side or stirred, and has less than 200ml beer in it.

 

[mynameisrodney]

A narrower vessel like the FKJ is going to have a slight edge, as 1cm height of beer is less volume. So I would expect the FKJ to be very good for this. It does have its own volume limitations though, so up to the user what is best for them.

I use an all rounder, once I'm down to the last 5L or so, I rotate it about 20 degrees or so on the stand, and typically get 2-300ml beer left in there at a stab. How do you end up with 5L of beer still in there?

 

[Grmblz]

A narrower vessel like the FKJ is going to have a slight edge, as 1cm height of beer is less volume. So I would expect the FKJ to be very good for this. It does have its own volume limitations though, so up to the user what is best for them.

I use an all rounder, once I'm down to the last 5L or so, I rotate it about 20 degrees or so on the stand, and typically get 2-300ml beer left in there at a stab. How do you end up with 5L of beer still in there?

They are talking about the float jamming/sticking to the side of the vessel before it is empty, in that scenario a narrower vessel should be at a disadvantage, ^^ obviously this is not the case.
Why do you need to rotate the all rounder? I like to connect a keg and not faff around until it blows, and when that happens I want it to be empty.
Width is the other issue, I have a 4 keg serving fridge, and a 2 keg serving fridge, if I used all rounders as uni-tanks I would be left with 2 x 1 keg fridges, this applies to all the pressure PET fermenters of course except for the fkj which holds 18lt only 1lt less than a corny, horses for courses, and very much process dependant but if you are having to prat around with your vessel of choice give an fkj a go, for $60 it's cheap enough to trial, and they don't leak or blow up, well, not yet.

 

[mynameisrodney]

They are talking about the float jamming/sticking to the side of the vessel before it is empty, in that scenario a narrower vessel should be at a disadvantage, ^^ obviously this is not the case.

OK I missed that, I haven't had the float stick to the side so didn't know it was as issue. In any case, if it did happen, I think the solution is to say "whoops, the float stuck to the side of the fermenter. I'd better free it and get the last 5L." rather than wasting 5L of beer. I can't see how this is a major issue, or one that is dependent on the brand of fermenter.

Why do you need to rotate the all rounder? I like to connect a keg and not faff around until it blows, and when that happens I want it to be empty.
Width is the other issue, I have a 4 keg serving fridge, and a 2 keg serving fridge, if I used all rounders as uni-tanks I would be left with 2 x 1 keg fridges, this applies to all the pressure PET fermenters of course except for the fkj which holds 18lt only 1lt less than a corny, horses for courses, and very much process dependant but if you are having to prat around with your vessel of choice give an fkj a go, for $60 it's cheap enough to trial, and they don't leak or blow up, well, not yet.

I dont 'need' to rotate it, I choose to rotate it to get maybe an extra few 100 ml out. Some people choose to not bother with such things and accept/account for a slighter lower amount of beer, thats fine too. It takes maybe 10 seconds to do though, so not really something that concerns me. At 18L the fkj is out for me. This is probably 15L into the keg, which is a considerable difference.

EDIT: regarding leaks or blowing up, I havent had any issues with mine.

 

[onemorecell]

Yeh well, in the words of Dr "I've just taken my med's" I've got my Hanzs on it, and remembering that this is the Fermzilla thread, according to him it's obviously operator error, but take a look at my FKJ (fermenter king junior from KK) here only as a reference btw, may I suggest that if you have difficulty with a Fermzilla then try an alternative fermenter/keg.
fwiw this keg blew last night, it wasn't shaken, tapped on the side or stirred, and has less than 200ml beer in it.

Ah that's interesting... The dip tube I have is probably made for the fermzilla - so it'd be a lot longer than I need. maybe shortening it would help.
Right now when the levels go down, the tube gets on an angle (dips down then back up again like a willy) so the hole is outside the beer

 

[mynameisrodney]

Yes the float tube should be cut to length. I think its designed to be approx the right length for the 60L all rounder. I cut it down for my 30L all rounder.

 

[Grmblz]

OK I missed that, I haven't had the float stick to the side so didn't know it was as issue. In any case, if it did happen, I think the solution is to say "whoops, the float stuck to the side of the fermenter. I'd better free it and get the last 5L." rather than wasting 5L of beer. I can't see how this is a major issue, or one that is dependent on the brand of fermenter.
I view this as faffin around, I want to connect the keg and only see it again when it's empty, could be a result of me being an ex landlord.

I dont 'need' to rotate it, I choose to rotate it to get maybe an extra few 100 ml out. Some people choose to not bother with such things and accept/account for a slighter lower amount of beer, thats fine too. It takes maybe 10 seconds to do though, so not really something that concerns me. At 18L the fkj is out for me. This is probably 15L into the keg, which is a considerable difference.
We may be talking at cross purposes here, are you using your vessel as a fermenter, a uni-tank or a serving keg? I (sometimes) ferment in a saurus transfer to an fkj for secondary/conditioning, and use it to serve, hence the reference to how little is wasted, in this scenario the fkj holds 18lt, as do some of my racecourse cornies.

EDIT: regarding leaks or blowing up, I havent had any issues with mine.
As I said "yet" they'll all blow up given the right circumstances, and it's not necessarily operator error despite what Dr "I got my Hanz on it" claims.

 

[mynameisrodney]

Spending 5 seconds to unstick a float instead of pouring beer down the sink is faffing around? Hahaha. You are complaining about a problem that is so minor it takes seconds to fix, and is unrelated to the product you are trashing.

I use it as a fermenter only. No interest in serving from it.

Last comment is misleading. Every pressure vessel will blow up given the right circumstances.

 

[Grmblz]

Spending 5 seconds to unstick a float instead of pouring beer down the sink is faffing around? Hahaha. You are complaining about a problem that is so minor it takes seconds to fix,
"I want to connect the keg and only see it again when it's empty" you have a strange definition of complaining I was making a comment, and if you read the thread you would realise it wasn't me talking about finding 5lt in the bottom, and no-one mentions chucking it down the sink.

and is unrelated to the product you are trashing.
Advising people to do their due diligence is not trashing a product, especially when there is well documented evidence of some problems.

I use it as a fermenter only. No interest in serving from it.
That's your prerogative, but we were talking about serving.

Last comment is misleading. Every pressure vessel will blow up given the right circumstances.
"they'll all blow up given the right circumstances " what part of this are you having difficulty with, how is it misleading?

 

[mynameisrodney]

We were not talking about serving. You were telling me to give the FKJ a go so that I don't have to do something which takes a few seconds with my fermzilla, which I use as a fermenter. Stop moving the goalposts. The FKJ may be a great product, but it is not a replacement for anything in the fermzilla range. To me it's like a spork, something that does an ok job at 2 things but not great at either of them. If it works for you, that's great, but it doesnt change anything to do with the fermzilla, which is the subject of this thread.

It is misleading similar to making a statement "Don't buy a Toyota, they all break down eventually". All cars will break down eventually. Trying to convince people to move away from a brand because of something which effects all the competitors too is misleading.

The bit that I have difficulty with is why there are so many people with their knickers in a twist over the whole KK/KL thing that it is impossible to read a thread without it being full of BS. From both sides.

 

[pauly]

I have purchased a second all-rounder with the intention of setting up the dry hop in it and using the co2 of the ferment to purge the secondary. I waited until the ferment had been going a little before adding the hops into the secondary to minimize the o2 contact as much as practical, but I thought it better to get them in as early as possible as this allows more co2 purge the secondary before I do the transfer.

The reason I am doing this over using the original FZ is that I think it will result in quicker and easier cleaning and generally less messing about, especially since I have a bucket blaster (which is awesome BTW).

I will report back in a few weeks as to how it tastes compared to the last one I did where I threw the hops in through the top of the all rounder (same wort and dry hop).

I'd like to give an update on this now it's in the keg.

I think in general it has worked very well, the beer has a good bright colour which to me indicates it has not had any significant oxygen exposure. The transfer to the secondary AR was pretty painless and I managed to do a closed transfer using gravity over 30-40 mins, I then used the excess gas left in the first FZ to purge a keg saving me an enormous 10c worth of gas.

After the dry hop and cold crash the first 17L transferred pretty painlessly to the keg. I hadn't moved the AR from the fridge at this point but it clogged the dip tube, as soon as I put some gas through to blow out the blockage I suddenly had a hop soup and I had to stop kegging for the day.

My dip tube is not cut to the right length, it's maybe 5cm too long. I hadn't had problems with this before as often I had a lot of yeast cake/break/hops mixed together and it was pretty firm. however just with just the 100g of hops it was like a slurry and it was very difficult to angle the AR in such a way that the tube wasn't getting clogged. Moving the AR even slightly also causes the hops to stir up significantly, in the end I got another litre out to a soda bottle but probably left another half litre in there.

I might try one of these.

The beer tastes great, to me it seems more hoppy than the one done in the FZ but I probably need another week or two before a proper taste.

I will definitely be doing this again and the FZ can stay in storage for now. I will spend some time making sure the dip tube it cut to the right length before doing the next batch of course!

 

[awfulknauful]

I wonder if KL have any concerns about what they produce. Those stress fractures won't get better they will get worse.

Beer Baron has been quiet I wonder if he is having problems?