TheBeerBaron
Well-Known Member
Well I sure have overlooked this fact! so good to know. it's lucky then that I had actually run out of PBW and my FZ has been sitting for a week with just sodium perc so hopefully that hasn't damage the body.
Fermzilla
- Thread starter Nullnvoid
- Start date
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Well I sure have overlooked this fact! so good to know. it's lucky then that I had actually run out of PBW and my FZ has been sitting for a week with just sodium perc so hopefully that hasn't damage the body.
Yes it's something I think we need to make more effort to educate customers on. The reality is all the effective cleaning happens in the first 10 minutes so really no point to leave longer. Sodium metasilicate is really effective but just don't leave it for longer than you need to.
I also did a few brews at 25 PSI, mainly as experiments to see how it would suppress yeast flavours and possible retain more hop flavour from a dry hop at pitch.
I do not know if it was coincidence or not but the collection vessel was packed hard whereas it was not like that when fermenting at 10 PSI. The first time I did not think about it and gently loosened one of the soda caps to relive pressure as I had done previously, left it for half an hour and came back to take it off. It looked like the car scene from pulp fiction soon after that, this was in the bathroom and the wife was not impressed.
The second time I tried using a plastic carb cap to drain the pressure but blocked almost immediately. I then very very carefully loosened the soda cap, in the shower whilst covering it with a towel and wearing safety goggles. Still a massive explosion but at least it was contained!
If I do it again I will do the only sensible thing and purge down to 5 PSI or so before removing the collection container.
If you find a good way to do it please let me know!
I think this is a good suggestion and I have tried this.
It's a little hard to get some of the hop pellets down the funnel though, and I had to do 150g over three batches due to mild volcanoing. I think if you are fermenting at 25 PSI you need to be prepared for this.
I have actually bought a FZ all rounder and plan to use this method again, I have never harvested the yeast from the FZ so for me I am thinking it's a lot of extra cleaning I can avoid.
I also got some of the new PET t-pieces https://www.kegland.com.au/pco-1881-carbonation-cap-tee-piece.html and am planning to make some hop tea, transfer to PET bottles and enclosed transfer that into the keg as an alternative to dry hopping.
If you are trying to suppress ester production and get cleaner fermentation you should aim for about 10-15psi max. If you get up to 25psi this starts to have a negative impact on the fermentation process. It's not simply more pressure is necessarily better. I think we need to do more to educate customers about this. I think a lot of customers are often going higher in pressure than is actually desirable just because they can.
The other thing that will probably help you is if you remove the soda cap really slowly. With hops and other trub you will find this is a fairly thick paste and when you remove the soda cap you will need a few ml of this paste to come out of the cap first so the pressure is reduced before the cap is completely removed. If you do it too fast the cap does blow off.
I should also say that if you turn off the butterfly valve it's important to either remove the whole collection container fairly soon after or at least release the pressure using the PCO threaded caps. If you leave the butterfly valve closed and the collection container in place you can continue to get this separate chamber continuing to ferment and also continue to build up more pressure making the hop explosion effect greater. Really there is no reason to leave it connected once you have turned off the butterfly valve off so it should be removed and dumped.
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Haha yeah happened to me twice too and in my brew shed things are still coated in hops because I'm too lazy to clean it up I dont actually put it under pressure until day 3 so it can produce those ale esters then let it rise itself to 25psi. I think purging down the pressure is the safest option, removing the collection jar, add dry hops, purge with co2, open valve then put 25psi back into the tank. Cheers!
Ive never had an issue with fermenting at 25psi but I dont put it under pressure until day 3 anyways so by that time most fermentation is done. I also let it gradually get to that pressure by day 10 its carbed, cold and ready for kegging.
Mya
Well-Known Member
So bought one of these and have no end of problems. The main bottom cone ring leaked and the collection cup leaked. Managed to get the bottom cone ring sealed after disassembling a few times, collection cup I had 4 different goes at different tightness (including different amounts of keg lube) starting from hand tight (recommended here) and working upwards, the last tightness was so tight I literally couldn't remove it without putting something through the two side ports on the collection cup just to get leverage (like you're not meant to do). Now I'm too scared to remove the collection cup (even if I could) during fermentation incase I can't even get it back on without it leaking with the fermzilla full of beer, kind of defeats the whole purpose. Doesn't help of course that the fermzilla is so light, soft and round that you can't get leverage on ANYTHING when trying to use the undoing tool.
Now after my ferment I can't remove the lid, the rubber on the undoing tool keeps slipping doesn't matter how tight I hold the rubber. Between the bottom cone and collection cup I probably spent over an hour trying to undo them now another half hour on the lid, I'm running out of patience.
Any tips on removing the lid? I only did it up a little harder than hand tight. It doesn't have pressure and it had keg lube on.
I also suspect despite everything, there is still a slow leak somewhere because the spunding valve decayed from 15 to 0 psi once fermentation was over.
Now after my ferment I can't remove the lid, the rubber on the undoing tool keeps slipping doesn't matter how tight I hold the rubber. Between the bottom cone and collection cup I probably spent over an hour trying to undo them now another half hour on the lid, I'm running out of patience.
Any tips on removing the lid? I only did it up a little harder than hand tight. It doesn't have pressure and it had keg lube on.
I also suspect despite everything, there is still a slow leak somewhere because the spunding valve decayed from 15 to 0 psi once fermentation was over.
I recently switched the carb caps over from the SS ones to the plastic ones, dunno why, just did. Anyway, one of the plastic ones leaks unless I get a pair of pliers out and tighten it right down, never had a problem with the SS ones so I'll swap them back for the next brew. I was under the impression the plastic ones would seal better!?
It needs to be hand tight and then a nudge on mine, others have luck backing it off just under hand tight but if you go to ridiculous tightness then expect to have to replace the seal as it's likely compromised now.. as for your lid, try the tool again but perhaps try a pipe over the handle for more leverage. Maybe pump some CO2 in their to keep the body tight for better grip, grab a second pair of hands, don't forget if you loosen the lid release the pressure before undoing all the way.. PS. This could all be bad advice!
Whack a few PSI in in, and give it a big hug
. Seirously, arms and legs around it to give you maximum grip on the body. Obviously you'll need a second pair of hands to operate whatever tool you can get to undo the lid. Maybe an old style strap wrench. I'd advise against a chain wrench, as I suspect that would probably damage the plastic.
My first brew with the Fermzilla I used the plastic carb caps and they leaked, no good at all. I changed to the SS using Grolsch bottle top red rubber seals and never had a problem since.
I agree with you about the collection bottle being very difficult to remove, the only way I can do it is to use the butterfly valve handle in off position as a purchase against the unscrewing force, not real friendly at all and a weak point IMO. Maybe the thread needs to be redesigned so it doesn't bind so much, and a decent F#@%&ing spanner for it would be a big help!
I agree with you about the collection bottle being very difficult to remove, the only way I can do it is to use the butterfly valve handle in off position as a purchase against the unscrewing force, not real friendly at all and a weak point IMO. Maybe the thread needs to be redesigned so it doesn't bind so much, and a decent F#@%&ing spanner for it would be a big help!
Nullnvoid
Well-Known Member
Mya
Well-Known Member
as for your lid, try the tool again but perhaps try a pipe over the handle for more leverage. Maybe pump some CO2 in their to keep the body tight for better grip, grab a second pair of hands, don't forget if you loosen the lid release the pressure before undoing all the way.. PS. This could all be bad advice!
I spent 30 minutes with the tool on the lid, it's not a matter of grip on the body or using a cheater bar or anything, the rubber in the tool just slips on the lid because the grooves on the lid are so small that It can't even get grip.
I'm able to get grip on the body, the tool just doesn't work.
Getting grip on the body to undo the collection bottle on the other hand is impossible without using the valve, even then I would NOT use the valve for leverage when it actually has beer in because it's pretty easy to nudge the butterfly valve out of the closed position and all it would take is cracked butterfly + removed collection bottle = BIG MESS.
Dunno what to say, I mean I have found the tool can slip a little if things are REALLY tight but generally speaking I've not had any problems with it.. pull the rubber taught enough and pinch it along with the handle so it can't move and with the right amount of torque it should loosen. Did you have any lube on the threads, that also obviously helps.. plus, eat your Weetbix in the morning!
U
Use a Filter Spanner on the collection bottle. For the top use the supplied tool but give it a solid whack with a rubber mallet.
awfulknauful
Well-Known Member
I wonder how many times this has to happen, very similar to the Scandinavian guy on you tube who's FermZilla blew at 10 PSI.
awfulknauful
Well-Known Member
Picture from above post. From Homebrewtalk
Trippinonprozac
Member
I’m pretty close to closing the deal on one of these but the amount of conflicting real works issues and praise I’m still not sure. Is dumping the yeast and oxygen free dry hopping worth the extra hassles that come with the butterfly valve, and extra cleaning. Or KISS and to the all rounder ?
I think if I had my time again, I'd buy two all rounders and KISS. I rarely remove the bottom jar on my FZ just because I'm worried I won't get it sealed back up nicely again mid-fermentation or whatever. When dry-hopping through there it would always dump trub on top and I'd end up having to shake the whole vessel to get the hops into suspension which is awkward (that was when I was doing BIAB, less of a problem with the BZ). I now just dry hop through the top quickly. It's also easy enough to harvest yeast cleanly with or without the jar but I prefer to overbuild my starters and split those off rather than harvesting post-ferment. I do like to be able to pressure ferment and pressure transfer relatively O2 free though, so I wouldn't give that up. That's just my $0.02.
Grmblz
Well-Known Member
First off is pressure or not, you've chosen pressure (zilla or rounder) cool so now all that's left is yeast/trub removal, ideally you wont have much trub in your wort (should be back in the kettle) or non if you're using extracts or FWK's but you can always rack under pressure to another vessel, dry hop is easy using magnets and probably better than using the zilla's bottle from an oxy perspective, so what's left? Yeast! Collecting removing etc. Not all the yeast settles into the bottle of the zilla there is a lot sitting on the cone sides, so separation of settled yeast and beer requires racking, we're left with collection, and yep the zilla does a great job of that, you can of course swirl the rounder after it's been emptied but it's messier and not as sanitary. The zilla is 27L the rounder 30L, my preference would be 35L but I make a lot of high gravity stuff, both require the purchase of the pressure kit. One last point is sexy, the zilla is and the rounder isn't, but at $140 and $70 respectively is one super model better than two plain Janes? If I could trade my zilla for two rounders I would, but then I've never been much on super models, way too temperamental, and high maintenance, bit like the zilla really My 2 bobs worth.
My 2 bobs worth.Similar threads
