EOI Oxygen scavenging caps/crown seals

[n87]

Hi All,
After some discussions round here and with my brew club re oxidisation, i have decided to have a look at oxygen scavenging caps as I am convinced that there is way too much O2 in the bottle neck, let alone what the beer has picked up during bottling for the yeast to eat up before it starts causing bad thing.

However, there seems to be a lack of Australian sources (at home brew qty).
I found one place that will sell a box of 10,000 at quite a reasonable price http://www.closuresonline.com.au/shop/26mm-black-15-90-per-000/
Black cause I said so , if there is enough interest, we may be able to get another colour (silver or gold). Price difference is negligible between colours ($4.40/10,000).

I will ask that people put their hand up for a minimum of 500, so i have a chance to break the box down before Christmas. Also done by weight for the same reasons and better consistency.

Rough prices I have come up with including caps, postage to me and postage to you (assuming 500 caps is 500g and fits in the appropriate post pack):
500: $20
1000: $35

Without postage (local pickup):
500: $11
1000: $22

Exact prices will be worked out if it looks like it will be going ahead and I work out anything else that is required (eg bags)


1: n87 (1000)
2: Central Coast Brewers Reserve (1000)
3:
4:
5:

Total: 2000

 

[mtb]

1: n87 (1000)
2: mtb (1000)
3:
4:
5:

Total: 2000

 

[n87]

1: n87 (1000)
2: mtb (1000)
3: Central Coast Brewers Reserve (1000)
4:
5:

Total: 3000

 

[Benn]

1: n87 (1000)
2: mtb (1000)
3: Central Coast Brewers Reserve (1000)
4: Benn (500)
5:

Total: 3500

 

[Mikeyr]

1: n87 (1000)
2: mtb (1000)
3: Central Coast Brewers Reserve (1000)
4: Benn (500)
5: Mikeyr (500)
6:

(4000)

 

[n87]

Any more interest on this one?

 

[zwitter]

Hi
A question about them
Do they need to be stored in an inert gas or vacuum etc?

Just we have similar things at work and once they are opened they have a short period they must be used by as they start absorbing O2 straight away.

I generally keg but do see there could be some value in this but 500 caps is years of supply for me.

James
Zwitter


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=3387

Did you see these?

 

[Digga]

For the price difference bulk buy is defo the go.
$1.59 per 100 to $14.95 at craft brewer.
Got to run a business I suppose..
I have used around 150 caps in my whole brewing career (2.5yrs) so won't be getting involved.

 

[n87]

Hi
A question about them
Do they need to be stored in an inert gas or vacuum etc?

Just we have similar things at work and once they are opened they have a short period they must be used by as they start absorbing O2 straight away.

I generally keg but do see there could be some value in this but 500 caps is years of supply for me.

James
Zwitter

I have been meaning to ask them for a data sheet, but kept forgetting. Have asked now, and will post results.

http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=3387

Did you see these?

For the price difference bulk buy is defo the go.
$1.59 per 100 to $14.95 at craft brewer.
Got to run a business I suppose..
I have used around 150 caps in my whole brewing career (2.5yrs) so won't be getting involved.

Thanks DJ, that is the only 'local' place I have found with them, but Digga has it. at $15 plus postage half across the country, brings it to ~$25 for 100 caps.
I keg mostly, but I would still go through 100 caps in short order, if I do a batch for bottling, there is usually around 80 bottles..

Will still take me many years to go through 1000, but provided they store well, I don't mind. Even if I loose half, I am still ahead vs craft brewer.


1: n87 (1000)
2: mtb (1000)
3: Central Coast Brewers Reserve (1000)
4: Benn (500)
5: Mikeyr (500)
6:

(4000)

 

[mtb]

My hope is that I'd be able to split a thousand into ten/fifteen snaplock bags and suck most of the air out of each for storage, but ultimately, they will begin absorbing O2 the moment the big bag is opened.. just not sure how much. Might be another reason to invest in a vacuum sealer.

 

[n87]

My hope is that I'd be able to split a thousand into ten/fifteen snaplock bags and suck most of the air out of each for storage, but ultimately, they will begin absorbing O2 the moment the big bag is opened.. just not sure how much. Might be another reason to invest in a vacuum sealer.

From what I have read, they are activated by moisture. they would be pretty useless (even for a decent operation) if the liner has been absorbing as soon as it has been manufactured.
vacing them would be a good idea tho, even if just to keep the moisture out.
Will have a look to see how much vac roll I have.

 

[kaiserben]

From what I have read, they are activated by moisture. they would be pretty useless (even for a decent operation) if the liner has been absorbing as soon as it has been manufactured..

I've read that you're not supposed to get them wet. So I'm guessing while dry they probably absorb moisture from the atmosphere very, very slowly, but it's no huge problem until you get them properly wet. I think I also read that you're not supposed to no-rinse them (because that gets them wet). Or perhaps what I read was that you only no-rinse at the last moment? Can anyone confirm?

I'm semi-interested. I just want to know exactly how they work and how they need to be treated.

 

[n87]

I've read that you're not supposed to get them wet. So I'm guessing while dry they probably absorb moisture from the atmosphere very, very slowly, but it's no huge problem until you get them properly wet. I think I also read that you're not supposed to no-rinse them (because that gets them wet). Or perhaps what I read was that you only no-rinse at the last moment? Can anyone confirm?

I'm semi-interested. I just want to know exactly how they work and how they need to be treated.

Hopefully they come back to me with a datasheet that has this info on it. I wont bother going ahead if they have to be kept in a vacuum, that would make the product too difficult to use on our scale.

 

[Benn]

50x Silica gel desiccant pouches (food grade)
$1.66 w free postage
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/122212626177

A few of these in a Vac bag or Zip loc bag may help if moisture is to be avoided for storage.

The O2 scavenging must have to take place slowly over a relatively long period of time otherwise what's the point? if the seal gets wet at bottling, uses up all scavenging potential in a few days then basically becomes a standard seal from then on there's no real point in an O2 scavenging seal.
All I know is Sierra Nevada use them and that's good enough for me

 

[n87]

50x Silica gel desiccant pouches (food grade)
The O2 scavenging must have to take place slowly over a relatively long period of time otherwise what's the point? if the seal gets wet at bottling, uses up all scavenging potential in a few days then basically becomes a standard seal from then on there's no real point in an O2 scavenging seal.
All I know is Sierra Nevada use them and that's good enough for me

Well I would rather they work quickly and get the O2 away from my beer. Once all the O2 is out of the headspace, why would you need any more scavenging?

 

[Benn]

I was under the impression from something I read on AHB a while ago that O2 scavenging seals are meant to mitigate oxygen ingress after bottling, apparently despite positive pressure from Co2 in the bottle O2 will creep inside (some phenomenon to do with molecule size difference or something) and affect/stale the beer.
As far as O2 in the neck space at bottling, either the yeast quickly consume it if bottle conditioning or some sort of counter pressure bottle filling method should be employed to eliminate O2 if your not bottle conditioning.
I could be wrong though & usually am

 

[n87]

I was under the impression from something I read on AHB a while ago that O2 scavenging seals are meant to mitigate oxygen ingress after bottling, apparently despite positive pressure from Co2 in the bottle O2 will creep inside (some phenomenon to do with molecule size difference or something) and affect/stale the beer.
As far as O2 in the neck space at bottling, either the yeast quickly consume it if bottle conditioning or some sort of counter pressure bottle filling method should be employed to eliminate O2 if your not bottle conditioning.
I could be wrong though & usually am

I did some calculations on the O2 in the headspace (https://aussiehomebrewer.com/threads/how-much-o2-does-the-yeast-actually-consume-in-bottle.94479/) and there is about as much O2 in the headspace as you would expect the yeast to consume in the height of their growth phase... and there is no real growth going on in the bottle, just eating some extra sugar.

I think you are thinking of 'Oxygen Barrier' caps. These apparently stop all O2 coming in by simply sealing better... to keep it simple. I dont believe this type would 'go off' as they dont do anything active
Oxygen Scavenging caps actually actively eat the O2 from the headspace. I would have to assume that these caps are also a form of 'barrier' cap or you will still get O2 eventually.

 

[Benn]

Thanks n87, so much technology out there to keep up with

 

[n87]

OK, So got a reply from the supplier, attached is the sheets I got.
By the looks of it, they are O2 scavenging and O2 Barrier caps.
And excuse the poor translation, I think the manufacturer is Brazilian.

Regarding storage, the supplier said 'All crowns (regardless of liner style) will last 2 years in well protected dry conditions'

I'm happy with this (even if just for the o2 barrier).


1: n87 (1000)
2: mtb (1000)
3: Central Coast Brewers Reserve (1000)
4: Benn (500)
5: Mikeyr (500)
6:

(4000)