Dedicated Herms Guide, Problems And Solution Thread

[Screwtop]

Thanks Tony. :icon_cheers:
Perhaps I'm not using the PBW correctly? When I did the baking tray thing it only softened the gunk enough for me to scrape off.
Use as per the instructions --- 1 teaspoon\2.5 litres water. Maybe it's a bad batch? :unsure:

TP

Pete, I use PBW to clean my gear, I don't use it at recommended strength, bit of a guestimate, tip about 2 tablespoons in 12L and pump through everything for 30 min. Lots of brown crud comes out, but it doesn't get the brown stain out of my silicon hoses.

Screwy

 

[TidalPete]

Screwy might have something there Andrew? What's your liquor to grain ratio? IMHO loose is best with a HERMES.
Mine is 3.25:1 & never stir except at mashin & always have the recirculation going full bore. Efficiency in the tun is always in the 90's. I don't worry too much about the MashMaster reading.

TP

 

[TidalPete]

Pete, I use PBW to clean my gear, I don't use it at recommended strength, bit of a guestimate, tip about 2 tablespoons in 12L and pump through everything for 30 min. Lots of brown crud comes out, but it doesn't get the brown stain out of my silicon hoses.

Screwy

Just saw this & thanks for your reply Screwy. I think I'll try your dosage next time. That brown "stain" in your silicon hoses could well be a film? Have you tried soaking them in Napisan like I mentioned above? Take heart! Will start the ball rolling for the 100% stuff in a day or two.

TP

 

[AndrewQLD]

Maybe Andrew, but mash efficiency indicates good even flow. Introduced the stir ages ago due to this problem trying to even up temp between top and bottom of the mash. Am sure it's the thermometer indicating the wrong temp at this stage until I test by replacing the thermometer with a probe. Could also be due to the slow rate of flow that I use, my mash is very open and the grist floats around but after 60 min it has set a little on the bottom due to flow so I still give a turn with the mash paddle after ramping to MO. Only a 10 min MO rest, so the grist is nice and open ready for sparge. Are you using a MM thermometer in your tun? and at what depth is it in the tun, mine is about 120mm from the bottom of the tun.

Cheers,

Screwy

I have a Teltru dial thermometer that sits 150mm from the bottom and extends about 100mm into the mash tun, from your description above Screwy we do thing slightly differently that probably accounts for the differences we are seeing.
I don't stir before draining the tun because my grain bed is the same temp as the reading from the Herms exit and my flow rates are reasonably fast, at a guess I'd say >2lt/min.

Screwy might have something there Andrew? What's your liquor to grain ratio? IMHO loose is best with a HERMES.
Mine is 3.25:1 & never stir except at mashin & always have the recirculation going full bore. Efficiency in the tun is always in the 90's. I don't worry too much about the MashMaster reading.

TP

And here's another difference I do only 2 water additions. mash in and sparge making sure my run offs are of equal volume so my l/kg ratio at mash in is usually up around the 4l/kg ratio. Perhaps that is making a difference.

It's interesting how many slight differences there are in each different system.

Andrew

 

[chappo1970]

I have been using 100% Sodium Perc and PBW. Use the 100% as a general everyday cleaner and use the PBW to give it a good clean. 100% Sod Perc was about $5kg in bulk (20kg pack) where PBW is $50 for 1.8kg. The Sod Perc does a great job but the PBW must have other compounds and detergents in there to help shift the stubborn stuff.

Chap Chap

 

[Screwtop]

Just saw this & thanks for your reply Screwy. I think I'll try your dosage next time. That brown "stain" in your silicon hoses could well be a film? Have you tried soaking them in Napisan like I mentioned above? Take heart! Will start the ball rolling for the 100% stuff in a day or two.

TP

Will get my hoses in a bucket of Napisan today and leave them to soak, ta Pete.

 

[Screwtop]

I have a Teltru dial thermometer that sits 150mm from the bottom and extends about 100mm into the mash tun, from your description above Screwy we do thing slightly differently that probably accounts for the differences we are seeing.
I don't stir before draining the tun because my grain bed is the same temp as the reading from the Herms exit and my flow rates are reasonably fast, at a guess I'd say >2lt/min.

Teltru.........nice. They've been around a long time. Was going to order one years ago about the time the MM thermometer became available, hmmmm.

And here's another difference I do only 2 water additions. mash in and sparge making sure my run offs are of equal volume so my l/kg ratio at mash in is usually up around the 4l/kg ratio. Perhaps that is making a difference.

It's interesting how many slight differences there are in each different system.

Andrew

Thats what provides the diversity in our beers, great hey! Always amused when talking to other brewers who use exactly the same kit, usually their processes vary widely. Three cheers for the little difference, like titties :lol:


Screwy

 

[Thirsty Boy]

I'm in Screwy's camp - I have a thermometer in the mash.. but don't really care what it says. I do all my figuring from the wort return temperature.

I reckon Screwy gets a differential between return temp and mash temp because of his slow rate of circulation... I have tried a bunch of different flow rates, and have noticed the variation between wort flow temp and grain bed temp is highest when the flow rate is low - also that the differential between top and bottom of the mash is the same ... higher when flow rate is low.

Makes no difference mind you, you measure from whatever point you choose, stick with it and tweak your tempertures to reflect your results. The only time it matters even vaguely is if you are trying to tell someone else your recipe.

Here's my mash graph for my first brew in my new BB mash tun - These days I normally only graph the wort temp, but because now I have a dial thermo, its a lot easier to compare the return temp to the mash temp, and this was a first run, so I took notice.

Wort return temp in Blue - Dial thermo in Red( probe a bit higher up than halfway point in the grainbed, lower than halfway if you include the liquid level). 3:1 L:G and no stirring after mash in.

btw - dial thermo and wort return were calibrated to match when the system was recirculating water only at full throttle and allowed time to steady out, so temp differences are real and not a factor of any calibration differences or suchlike.

A you can see, the grain bed temp lags behind the wort return temp, but eventually catches up - I use a PID controlled RIMS not a HERMS though and my return wort temp comes up very quickly - 13 in 5 minutes on the graph, but it was pretty much at temp even faster than that, its just that I didn't take my first reading till 5mins. So its natural that the bed would take a chunk longer than that. I suspect a slightly closer match between the two lines when I can bring myself to whack the lid on and not watch whats going on obsessively... give me a couple more brews.

Still, as I said, I don't care about the bed temperature - and once I have gotten a better feel for this new configuration, I will stop monitoring it completely. Probably pull the dial thermo out of the tun altogether and find something else to do with it.

TB

 

[Screwtop]

Will get my hoses in a bucket of Napisan today and leave them to soak, ta Pete.

Well here they are, have been soaking for a few hrs now. Nothing seems to be moving. Oh oh just read Pete's post he used hot water, back to the start!

 

[RussTaylor]

Well here they are, have been soaking for a few hrs now. Nothing seems to be moving. Oh oh just read Pete's post he used hot water, back to the start!

A hose that I used to use to transfer wort from the mash to kettle is brown. I soaked it in hot napisan for 24+hrs and it didn't budge. I even got a bit of chux and pushed it through the tubing with a bit of wire and it didn't budge.

 

[Gout]

I installed all new hose's on my brew rig and after one brew the hoses are a light brown. I assume wort has stained the plastic and maybe soaked into the plastic. I used PBW hot straight after the brew and that didnt help so i gave up and living with it.

 

[chappo1970]

Has any body got or can give advice on a continuious mash stirrer. I think randyrob has one in his halfluck brewery? Is it worth considering guys?

I'm very seriously contemplating fabricating one up for the brewery as the next upgrade.

Chap Chap

 

[TidalPete]

Has any body got or can give advice on a continuious mash stirrer. I think randyrob has one in his halfluck brewery? Is it worth considering guys?

I'm very seriously contemplating fabricating one up for the brewery as the next upgrade.

Chap Chap

No information ATM Chappo (Although I may have some filed away somewhere) but do you really need a mash stirrer when the wort is constantly being recirculated through the grain bed & doing essentially the same thing?

TP

 

[chappo1970]

No information ATM Chappo (Although I may have some filed away somewhere) but do you really need a mash stirrer when the wort is constantly being recirculated through the grain bed & doing essentially the same thing?

TP

No not while mashing Pete. Although I can't see why not? More at dough in and was thinking along the lines of MO and sparge to give those grains a good thorough rinse. I'm more than happy with my consistant 85% eff and always hitting targets but just more or less seeking the little edge. Plus the kids are away with the Outlaws for 2 weeks so I have some spare time on my hands to do a little more development work.

Would be grateful as always if you could dig up that info thou TP. :icon_cheers:

Chap Chap

 

[TidalPete]

No not while mashing Pete. Although I can't see why not? More at dough in and was thinking along the lines of MO and sparge to give those grains a good thorough rinse. I'm more than happy with my consistant 85% eff and always hitting targets but just more or less seeking the little edge. Plus the kids are away with the Outlaws for 2 weeks so I have some spare time on my hands to do a little more development work.

Would be grateful as always if you could dig up that info thou TP. :icon_cheers:

Chap Chap

I might have something. :unsure: No promises but.

FYI I recirculate from the moment I mash in (The only time I stir the mash) to MO.
MO to me = Recirculating at MO temp for 10 minutes, sitting for 10 minutes, then recirculating until clear before adding to kettle.

TP

 

[chappo1970]

Pretty much my procedure as well TP. As I said it's not a need just a wankers desire to endlessly tweak and f#ck around with the brewery cause I can

 

[KHB]

I have 5.5 mtrs of copper in 10lt of water but can only manage 2-3.c a minute per degree someone suggested to me to throttle back the flow a bit, is this the norm??

Cheers
KHB

Sine noone answered this one i worked it out for myself today. I reduced my flow at ramping time to a slow trickle and went from a degree every 2 minutes to every 50 secs to a minute, was stocked!

Cheers
KHB

 

[AndrewQLD]

Sine noone answered this one i worked it out for myself today. I reduced my flow at ramping time to a slow trickle and went from a degree every 2 minutes to every 50 secs to a minute, was stocked!

Cheers
KHB

The trade off there is it will take you a lot longer to get your whole volume wort through.
There is a balance between circulation speed, herms design and temp ramp speed and it can take a bit of fiddling to get it right.

Andrew

 

[gregs]

I have a Teltru dial thermometer that sits 150mm from the bottom and extends about 100mm into the mash tun, from your description above Screwy we do thing slightly differently that probably accounts for the differences we are seeing.
I don't stir before draining the tun because my grain bed is the same temp as the reading from the Herms exit and my flow rates are reasonably fast, at a guess I'd say >2lt/min.




And here's another difference I do only 2 water additions. mash in and sparge making sure my run offs are of equal volume so my l/kg ratio at mash in is usually up around the 4l/kg ratio. Perhaps that is making a difference.

It's interesting how many slight differences there are in each different system.

Andrew

Andrew and all other experienced herms brewers, is the water to grain ratio all that important. I ask this question because when recirculating thru your herms the grain bed gets pulled down to some degree. And if that is the case then you would have a percentage of that fluid on top of the grain. Not actually mixing with it when recirculating. Just another PITA question that will no doubt cause debate, but thats what its al about. Cheers.

 

[gregs]

The trade off there is it will take you a lot longer to get your whole volume wort through.
There is a balance between circulation speed, herms design and temp ramp speed and it can take a bit of fiddling to get it right.

Andrew

Andrew, what you have quoted here is why I ask the question; having the same mash profile as you and when doing double batches is it ok to ramp to mashout temp then dump to kettle via the herms before the grain bed reaches the mashout temp, then sparge at the right temp to raise the grain bed to mashout temp? I hope I have made myself clear.