Dedicated Herms Guide, Problems And Solution Thread

[Screwtop]

Brewstand



HE and probe placement. My old clunker 15L pot with 3M of coil and jug element, covered with camp mat and car foil sun visor. A new HE is planned 10L pot and 7M of coil with a new jug element through the bottom. Replacing the Mashmate controller with a PID also.



MLT Wort return manifold.........if you could call it that :lol:

 

[kirem]

here are some pics of my heat exchanger.

~5L
3.6kW controlled by Auberins ramp/soak PID and SSR
float valve to autofill the heatexchanger via solenoid and port on the base
all stainless except the brass gender bender
drain down port to empty the heatexchanger
T-piece to fit temperature probe
3-way valve on the exit return to mashtun/kettle

View attachment 34577

View attachment 34578

 

[gregs]

Screwtop, AndrewQld and other experienced brewers could you have a look at post 19 please; I think its a good question.

 

[kirem]

View attachment 34579

 

[kirem]

Ramp time is also indicative to flow rate. Has anyone ever timed and calculated there flow rate?

Also can someone explain how the temp in the mash tun could ever reach mashout temp, (say 78c) in reasonable time when ramped thru the HERMS- (a 13mm outlet at a given flow rate)) from say, (65 c)? Especially when doing double batches.

Consider a grain bed at 65c, (no HERMS) how much water and at what temperature would it take to immediately adjust that grain bed to mash out temp 78c. This may seem a silly question but if it takes the HERMS unit ramping at 1 degree per min 13 min to archive mashout temp at the output reading from 65c to78c, then it would be fare to say that the grain bed at 65c would take a bloody long time to adjust. ( I am new to this and know buggar all), but what is it we are measuring, it would seem to me that the dial thermometer in the mash tun would read the highest temperature at the time and that would be the wort. As the actual grain itself may read lower than the fluid temp. Does this sound feasible?

This is a great subject,

Cheers.

I did some calcs a couple of years ago, but have forgotten them, they may even be buried on here somewhere

My system has a ramp/soak PID on it and an auto start. my mashtun is doughed in the night before at tap temp and then I have it auto start normally a 3am and by 6.30-7am the mash is sitting happily at 75degC having gone through a number of programmed ramp and soak steps.

From memory the temp in the mashtun ramp in the order of 2deg/min and the temp at the heat exchanger outlet is very quick, probably less than a minute. I am doing a brew later this week during the day, I'll measure the mashtun and heat-ex ramp times

My march pump is not throttled and I do not have any compaction issues

 

[glaab]

It is a good question, I thought you'd just add water from the HLT to reach mash out.

 

[gregs]

It is a good question, I thought you'd just add water from the HLT to reach mash out.

One of my mash profiles is scheduled to ramp thru the HERMS unit after completion of mash - to mashout temps then dump to kettle.

After that I batch sparge at mashout temp and dump to kettle.

Its the reason for asking the question. Cheers.

 

[kirem]

View attachment 34580

 

[Screwtop]

Screwtop, AndrewQld and other experienced brewers could you have a look at post 19 please; I think its a good question.

Sorry Gregs but,

I don't monitor the grain bed temp

Ahhhhh, screaming and pulling my hair ..................relieves tension :lol:


Screwy

 

[gregs]

I did some calcs a couple of years ago, but have forgotten them, they may even be buried on here somewhere

My system has a ramp/soak PID on it and an auto start. my mashtun is doughed in the night before at tap temp and then I have it auto start normally a 3am and by 6.30-7am the mash is sitting happily at 75degC having gone through a number of programmed ramp and soak steps.

From memory the temp in the mashtun ramp in the order of 2deg/min and the temp at the heat exchanger outlet is very quick, probably less than a minute. I am doing a brew later this week during the day, I'll measure the mashtun and heat-ex ramp times

My march pump is not throttled and I do not have any compaction issues

Thanks Kirem, this will be good to know, although it will only be indicative to you system but it will shed some light on the possible mash tun lag temps. But as I asked in post #19, during mashout from mash temp to mashout temp what is it the dial thermometer is measuring (in that short time)? The entire mash tun contents or is it the highest temp surrounding the probe fluid or grain or both?

 

[gregs]

Sorry Gregs but,

I don't monitor the grain bed temp

Ahhhhh, screaming and pulling my hair ..................relieves tension :lol:


Screwy

Screwy you missed the question, sorry.

 

[nifty]

IMHO the smaller the pot (Less water to heat) & the longer the copper coil the more efficient your HE will be.
I have 5.7 metres of copper coil inside a 7 litre pot & get a temp rise of 2 deg c\minute.
Nifty --- HITBH did you manage to cram 8 metres of 1\2" copper coil inside a 7 litre pot?

TP

Pete, my inlet and outlet are through the lid of the pot so I've got more copper crammed in there, although 8 metres is an estimate.

I wound it around a paint tin and managed to get no kinks in it. The pot itself sits in half of an old fermentor with expander foam around it for insulation with a kettle element through the bottom.

Compared to the first class herms seen in this thread, mine looks like Frankensteins monster but it does the job.

nifty

 

[Screwtop]

Now that I am feeling a little better.................. :lol:

I monitor the wort out of the HE only!!!!! After entering a new temp into the controller I start the timer, so if at mash temp say 66° I enter 77° (for MO step) into the HE controller and set the timer for 15 min as this us usually how long (using my equipment) that it takes for the temp of the wort exiting the HE to rise from 66° to 77°. When the timer goes off I check to see it the temp has reached MO. Sometimes this may take a min or two longer. As soon as the temp reaches MO I give the mash a turn or very light stir and set the timer for 10 min for the MO rest. After the 10 min MO rest, I begin running wort from the MLT to the kettle (gravity) and pump 77°C sparge water from the HLT to the MLT via the HE with the controller set at 80° to maintain temp until the sparge has finished. The flow in is set to match flow out of the MLT to the kettle.

Cheers,

Screwy

 

[kirem]

If the mashtun is recirculated for long enough (system dependant) the whole system (mashtun, recircualting thin part/ thick part etc) should be at what ever temperature you want. My system automagically ramps and soaks at 40degC/30min, 44/15, 55/15, 61--63/over 40, 70/50 and 75 as long as I want to sparge for, I drain the first runnings and refill, recirculate for 20-30min to dissolve as many sugars as possible with the heatexchanger maintaining a temp of 75 and repeat until I have used all my sparge water

If your crush is correct, it is thin part of the mash that has all the goodies

It is important that you monitor and control the hottest part of the recirculating path. In a HERMS that is at the outlet of the heatexchanger.

If you measure the mash bed it is for information purposes only.

 

[gregs]

Thank you Screwy, that answers the question in part, but in my system Im not gravity fed from HLT I have one pump to do all the transferring so when the HERMS has ramped mash temp to mashout temp the grain bed at this point has not moved from 66c, so can I at that point start to transfer to kettle via the HERMS unit pre batch sparge?

Sorry for the 20 questions. Cheers.

 

[bradsbrew]

Chappo I notice you are using tempmate, would a fridgemate work ok? Or does it not control past the 70 degrees?

Brad

 

[sav]

Chappo I notice you are using tempmate, would a fridgemate work ok? Or does it not control past the 70 degrees?

Brad

Brad the fridgemate is 1deg either way,tempmate is 0.5.

 

[TidalPete]

Pete, my inlet and outlet are through the lid of the pot so I've got more copper crammed in there, although 8 metres is an estimate.

I wound it around a paint tin and managed to get no kinks in it. The pot itself sits in half of an old fermentor with expander foam around it for insulation with a kettle element through the bottom.

Compared to the first class herms seen in this thread, mine looks like Frankensteins monster but it does the job.

nifty

Thanks for the reply nifty. I know from experience how awkward & space consuming it is to put your inlet\outlet through the side of the HE. If I ever do another upgrade I'll follow your example & go through the lid. :icon_cheers:
Don't suppose you have a pic of your inlet\outlet on hand? Just trying to work out how you seal off the holes in the HE lid.

TP

 

[chappo1970]

Bradsbrew,

Wot Sav plus yeah doesn't go over 70C I needed at least 90C for the HLT and at least up to +80C for the HE.

I smell someone thinking about another brewery upgrade brad?

Cheers

Chap Chap

 

[Ross]

Brad the fridgemate is 1deg either way,tempmate is 0.5.

TempMate is 0.1c

Cheers Ross