Dedicated Herms Guide, Problems And Solution Thread

[yardy]

My HERMS element is controlled via the temp probe at the outlet of the HERMS. The MLT just has a temp guage on there so I can see what the mash temp is - MLT normally lags a few degrees behind the HERMS and the amount if difference is controlled by the pumping rates.

gday cd, do you have any pics of your HEX and the where you mounted the temp probe ?

cheers

one for all the HERMits, is it considered better to have the HEX mounted as close to the MLT or will it not matter if there's a bit of a run between the two ?

Dave

 

[Bongchitis]

Hey yardy,

If you have the temp probe directly downstream of the HEX then you probably dont want too much of a run as your return temp to your MLT may be down by a few degrees depending on your insulation, pump speed etc. Generally, The longer the line, the more of a lag/discrepancy between HEX exit temp and final equilibrium temp in the mash. I am trying to design minimum transfer lengths into my HERMS rig.

Cheers mate.


Edit: I know mash temp is not what we are interested in per se but short runs and minimal thermal loss is part of a good process I reckon. 2c

 

[yardy]

Hey yardy,

If you have the temp probe directly downstream of the HEX then you probably dont want too much of a run as your return temp to your MLT may be down by a few degrees depending on your insulation, pump speed etc. Generally, The longer the line, the more of a lag/discrepancy between HEX exit temp and final equilibrium temp in the mash. I am trying to design minimum transfer lengths into my HERMS rig.

Cheers mate.


Edit: I know mash temp is not what we are interested in per se but short runs and minimal thermal loss is part of a good process I reckon. 2c

G'day Bong,

I'll probably be looking at a 300mm run between MLT to HEX- HEX to MLT so 600 overall, maybe less if I can manage it, I'll be insulating everything where I can.

what temp control are you going with ?

cheers

Dave

 

[asis]

Thats nothing yardy.

I have about 300mm from mash to pump, 300mm from pump to HX and I'd say near a metre from Hx back to the tun. Only the return from the Hx is insulated. It could be shorter but I transfer to the kettle through the Hx so need the length.
All silicone hose.

:beer:

 

[yardy]

Thats nothing yardy.

I have about 300mm from mash to pump, 300mm from pump to HX and I'd say near a metre from Hx back to the tun. Only the return from the Hx is insulated. It could be shorter but I transfer to the kettle through the Hx so need the length.
All silicone hose.

:beer:

OK mate

do you have any specs on that ?

temp control, differential etc..

Dave

 

[Bongchitis]

G'day Bong,

I'll probably be looking at a 300mm run between MLT to HEX- HEX to MLT so 600 overall, maybe less if I can manage it, I'll be insulating everything where I can.

what temp control are you going with ?

cheers

Dave

Mate, 600mm total is about as short as you can get I would say so no dramas there. I am using silicone hose for all transfer lines... clean, insulative etc and with cam locks makes for a very flexible process. I will just tuck the tube inside the passive lagging around my BIAB vessel. It is a twin BIAB Herms btw inspired by QldKev.

Temp control will be PID to control the ~2000W heating element in the exchanger based upon HEX outlet temp with constant circulation via a march pump. Its all planned, designed and works in my head but need to weld my rig together.... need to learn how to weld h34r:

Good luck with yours mate.

 

[cdbrown]

Hi Yardy,

HEX is sitting below the MLT so the return distance of silicone tubing is a bit more than the height of a keg. Look Here for an idea of position.

I don't seem to have a photo of the HERMS outlet, but I've got it coming out the wall of the pot where a T-piece is screwed directly into it. One side has the probe screwed in, the other has a barbed connection for the silicone hose. Basically the wort flows into the small stub part of the T, goes around the corner and up into the silicone. The probe is long enough that it sits well into the flow of wort. I had originally planned to have the wort flow straight through the T and the probe into the stub part, but the probe is too long. Hope this description makes sense, if not I can take a pic tonight.

Cheers
-cdbrown

 

[yardy]

Mate, 600mm total is about as short as you can get I would say so no dramas there. I am using silicone hose for all transfer lines... clean, insulative etc and with cam locks makes for a very flexible process. I will just tuck the tube inside the passive lagging around my BIAB vessel. It is a twin BIAB Herms btw inspired by QldKev.

Temp control will be PID to control the ~2000W heating element in the exchanger based upon HEX outlet temp with constant circulation via a march pump. Its all planned, designed and works in my head but need to weld my rig together.... need to learn how to weld h34r:

Good luck with yours mate.

G'day Bong,

Sounds the ducks, looking forward to seeing how it turns out, don't stress the welding side mate, get a little stick welder, some scrap metal and jump in the deep end.

Pm me if you want to talk welders etc

cheers

Hi Yardy,

HEX is sitting below the MLT so the return distance of silicone tubing is a bit more than the height of a keg. Look Here for an idea of position.

I don't seem to have a photo of the HERMS outlet, but I've got it coming out the wall of the pot where a T-piece is screwed directly into it. One side has the probe screwed in, the other has a barbed connection for the silicone hose. Basically the wort flows into the small stub part of the T, goes around the corner and up into the silicone. The probe is long enough that it sits well into the flow of wort. I had originally planned to have the wort flow straight through the T and the probe into the stub part, but the probe is too long. Hope this description makes sense, if not I can take a pic tonight.

Cheers
-cdbrown

G'day CD,

Nice job you did on the rig, makes perfect sense but I would like to see a pic of the outlet if you can post one, no rush though, what's your HEX, an old pot ?

after some advice from Screwy I'm going with this for temp control http://www.craftbrewer.com/shop/details.asp?PID=888

cheers

 

[cdbrown]

Hi Yardy,

Here's the pic as requested. HEX is a 11L (I think) pot from Big W.

 

[yardy]

Hi Yardy,

Here's the pic as requested. HEX is a 11L (I think) pot from Big W.

Nice, thanks for that B)

more questions later..

cheers

 

[jfinney]

Hi there Chappo and other HERMS brewers.

I thought I'd post a pic of my finished HERMS system, ready for it's maden brew tonight! Thanks to all the generous brewers on this site who have shared valuable knowledge and advice, it just wouldn't be possible without you.

My only issue with my system when running water trials, is despite a 7.6 litre pot for the HEX, 2400 watt kettle element, about 8 metres copper coil, I just can't get better than 1-1.5 C per minute ramping, with a flow rate of about 5 litres per minute. Any suggestions on how I might improve this performance? Or is this ok? Does water and wort perform very differently, does one heat faster than th other??

Cheers guys.

 

[jfinney]

And some more photos.....

 

[Crusty]

Hi there Chappo and other HERMS brewers.

I thought I'd post a pic of my finished HERMS system, ready for it's maden brew tonight! Thanks to all the generous brewers on this site who have shared valuable knowledge and advice, it just wouldn't be possible without you.

My only issue with my system when running water trials, is despite a 7.6 litre pot for the HEX, 2400 watt kettle element, about 8 metres copper coil, I just can't get better than 1-1.5 C per minute ramping, with a flow rate of about 5 litres per minute. Any suggestions on how I might improve this performance? Or is this ok? Does water and wort perform very differently, does one heat faster than th other??

Cheers guys. View attachment 43469

Nothing wrong with 1-1.5 deg C a minute, seems to be what everyone is aiming for.

Looks good.

 

[prongs_386]

Just thought I'd share my recent experience of trying to extract a kettle element...

I bought a $16 kettle from target of the brand 'Cheif'. It had a 2200 watt element and quite honestly was a really poor/unsafe design (good thing I'm only using the element and not the kettle).

In order to get the element out I pretty much had to go at it with a hack saw... it probably ended up being in 10 or so pieces by the end of it but I managed to get the element and the plug for the other side of the wall. I ended up just cutting off the power LED and there was a switching mechanism that involved a bit of spare insulated wire getting pushed in and out of a hole that broke the circuit which I removed. The end result I think was good and even though it was a pain to get it out, this kettle is definitely a viable option for a cheap element.

I should have my copper pipe coming next week, but I still can't find a suitable pot. All of the pots I can find seem to be either shallow (more like a sauce pan) or they have a thick bottom and are expensive. Can anyone suggest any cheap option that I can find in melbourne somewhere or order online with cheap postage?

Thanks.

 

[sav]

Just thought I'd share my recent experience of trying to extract a kettle element...

I bought a $16 kettle from target of the brand 'Cheif'. It had a 2200 watt element and quite honestly was a really poor/unsafe design (good thing I'm only using the element and not the kettle).

In order to get the element out I pretty much had to go at it with a hack saw... it probably ended up being in 10 or so pieces by the end of it but I managed to get the element and the plug for the other side of the wall. I ended up just cutting off the power LED and there was a switching mechanism that involved a bit of spare insulated wire getting pushed in and out of a hole that broke the circuit which I removed. The end result I think was good and even though it was a pain to get it out, this kettle is definitely a viable option for a cheap element.

I should have my copper pipe coming next week, but I still can't find a suitable pot. All of the pots I can find seem to be either shallow (more like a sauce pan) or they have a thick bottom and are expensive. Can anyone suggest any cheap option that I can find in melbourne somewhere or order online with cheap postage?

Thanks.

I got my 10lt pot from Kmart glass lid gott 9metres of copper in it with jug element 1deg a minute no overshoots.

sav

 

[gava]

I got my 10lt pot from Kmart glass lid gott 9metres of copper in it with jug element 1deg a minute no overshoots.

sav

Where is your probe placement?

gav

 

[sav]

Where is your probe placement?

gav

Right at the top of my mash tun I made a t piece with the probe in it just as it enters the mash.
sav

 

[Cannibal Smurf]

How did you seal the probe into the compression fitting? I've had my HERMS almost ready to go for ages now but can't work out how to mount my probe, this looks like a good setup but not sure how you got it to seal.

 

[asis]

OK mate

do you have any specs on that ?

temp control, differential etc..

Dave

Sorry Dave I haven't looked at this thread for ages.

I am currently using an auber 2352 which works perfectly but am considering upgrading to the 2352P and using my old one for my new HLT for even lazier brewing. :blink:

My HX only holds around 7 litres with a 3/8 SS coil and 2400w element. I have never measured the coil. It ramps at around 1 degree a minute, obviously the grain bed lags a bit til the whole mash has been exchanged.

 

[sav]

How did you seal the probe into the compression fitting? I've had my HERMS almost ready to go for ages now but can't work out how to mount my probe, this looks like a good setup but not sure how you got it to seal.

I cut a small piece of sicone hoseand put inside the plastic olive its only finger tight works a treat

 

[egolds77]

I have noticed in a lot of the photos of HERMS, the silicone flow tubing un-insulated. Bunnings has dark gray foam plumbing insulation that fit silicone tubing perfectly, it's only a couple of $$$ and it stops a good portion of the heat lose from the tubing from MLT - PUMP - HEX - MLT.
Every little bit helps I figure, and for just a couple of $$$.

 

[prongs_386]

Hey guys.

How did you cut the hole for the element in your hex? I've got a hole drilled of about half an inch but I'm not sure how to get it out to over an inch without paying 50+ for a large bit (which I don't know you can even get).

Thanks.

 

[razz]

I used a step drill bit Prongs, if what you are drilling into isn't too thick then a basic job from the hardware store will do the trick. I think there is a thread a while back on drilling stainless steel.

 

[_HOME_BREW_WALLACE_]

Hey guys.

How did you cut the hole for the element in your hex? I've got a hole drilled of about half an inch but I'm not sure how to get it out to over an inch without paying 50+ for a large bit (which I don't know you can even get).

Thanks.

Get a step drill off ebay, use a small drill and drill heaps of holes around the diameter of the circle you want to cut, punch the hole out and file the hole smooth, or use a hole saw.

 

[bonj]

Drilling stainless steel: High pressure, slow speed, lots of lubricant, and keep it cool.

Should work equally well with the ladies

 

[hsb]

This might be a better place to ask. Has anyone got any tips on how to shield the base of an element in my H/EX?

This picture might explain better than I can, what to use to hide the (mains voltage) contacts ?

 

[_HOME_BREW_WALLACE_]

This might be a better place to ask. Has anyone got any tips on how to shield the base of an element in my H/EX?

This picture might explain better than I can, what to use to hide the (mains voltage) contacts ?

Dick smith or Jaycar should have a box of some sort to fix your problem, just cut a hole for your element and drill a couple of holes for your wires to slide through. Just remember to silicone up the holes and put a couple of zippy ties on the cables inside the box so if the wires are accidently pulled, nothing comes out.

Cheers

 

[gregs]

This is how I did it and it was a box from J-Car, it worked well.

My element fitting is 50mil BSP so I cut a 50 mil hole in the box and used the fittings to sandwich or port hole the pieces together. I hope that makes sense.

 

[hsb]

That makes perfect sense, thanks guys.. Off to Jaycar...

 

[hsb]

Wired it all up and did a maiden test run last night (water). Worked! Very chuffed. Got quick ramp times, well over 1C a minute.
Will try and get some pictures happening over the w/end.

Still waiting on my BCS-460 temp probe to arrive then I can start getting confused trying to get SSRs happening. (Any tips on (other) good resources for that process?)

For the moment I'm just going to recirculate constantly throughout the mash and turn the H/Ex on and off manually to balance temperature.
Love that little whirrrr of the pump and the hum of recirculation, sweet sounds to my ears.