Dedicated Herms Guide, Problems And Solution Thread

[newguy]

My herms uses a 1500 watt element and experience has shown that it is underpowered. It is proving impossible to find a 2400 watt non screw in type element but I already have a handheld 2400 watt water heater that is no longer used in the brewery. my thoughts are to adapt this heater and use it in addition to the 1500 watt element. I am useing a 19 litre pot with a 6 metre S/S coil this should improve my ramp times considerably. I am aware of the additional power requirements in order to do this safely but before I start down this road is anyone else useing this amont of heating capacity.
Cheers Altstart

I use a 1500W element to brew double batches (~40l finished volume) and it is powerful enough for me but my system is well insulated and uses a copper coil. Check your insulation. If you're hemorrhaging heat, the 1500W element will seem to struggle. Copper vs stainless coil. The thermal conductivity of stainless steel is very poor. The thermal conductivity of copper is approx 14x that of SS. This also influences overall system performance.

 

[browndog]

My herms uses a 1500 watt element and experience has shown that it is underpowered. It is proving impossible to find a 2400 watt non screw in type element but I already have a handheld 2400 watt water heater that is no longer used in the brewery. my thoughts are to adapt this heater and use it in addition to the 1500 watt element. I am useing a 19 litre pot with a 6 metre S/S coil this should improve my ramp times considerably. I am aware of the additional power requirements in order to do this safely but before I start down this road is anyone else useing this amont of heating capacity.
Cheers Altstart

Try here Jim.

http://www.stokes-aus.com.au/StokesAP/default.asp

Cheers

Browndog

 

[glaab]

sorry if this has been covered elsewhere but,...
I've just found a 12L pot [$14 at cheap as chips if anyone is looking for one]
and want to find a simple, cheap, easy, leakproof way to get the 1/2in copper coil
through the ss pot leaving a 1/2in nipple or socket on the outside. The cheap part rules out a bulkhead from BB or G&G. I've got plenty in the way of tools but the pot's too thin to mig a socket to. I can silver solder brass and have some silicon to make washers but not sure the easiest way to go. Thanks for any pointers, Cheers

 

[AndrewQLD]

sorry if this has been covered elsewhere but,...
I've just found a 12L pot [$14 at cheap as chips if anyone is looking for one]
and want to find a simple, cheap, easy, leakproof way to get the 1/2in copper coil
through the ss pot leaving a 1/2in nipple or socket on the outside. The cheap part rules out a bulkhead from BB or G&G. I've got plenty in the way of tools but the pot's too thin to mig a socket to. I can silver solder brass and have some silicon to make washers but not sure the easiest way to go. Thanks for any pointers, Cheers

Here's a pic of mine, it's water tight and easy to build. No silver solder it's all compression fittings.



andrew

 

[KHB]

How is everyone getting the kettle elements to seal, i have tried twice now with two different ones and differnent thickness pots and still cant get a seal. What am i doing wrong??

 

[jimmybee]

Browndog

one more question...

That junction box has a hole in it to go on the end of the external part of the element, yes?

If so are you screwing (clamping) the j box in between the element and the threaded socket? If so do you put a extra rubber washer in there? So there would be an washer either side the the plastic to create a good seal.

And does the plastic get affected by the heat coming thru the element...?

Cheers Jimmy

Here is a few more pics

View attachment 34961

View attachment 34962

View attachment 34963

View attachment 34964

View attachment 34965

View attachment 34966


cheers

Browndog

 

[TidalPete]

How is everyone getting the kettle elements to seal, i have tried twice now with two different ones and differnent thickness pots and still cant get a seal. What am i doing wrong??

I used the seal that was used in the cheap kettle the element came in.The small jiffy box that houses the element's wiring fitted in the groove of the seal along with the bottom of the pot the element sits on & the whole lot squashes together to form a watertight seal if you get my drift?

TP

 

[KHB]

I used the seal that was used in the cheap kettle the element came in.The small jiffy box that houses the element's wiring fitted in the groove of the seal along with the bottom of the pot the element sits on & the whole lot squashes together to form a watertight seal if you get my drift?

TP

Yes i do but the two units i had only had 3 little screws and they didnt screw togfether enough to get it tight on the pot. IE it has a wobblenot tight sealed.

 

[glaab]

sorry, it seemed like a sensible question at the time, i'll get it sorted

 

[AndrewQLD]

Yes i do but the two units i had only had 3 little screws and they didnt screw togfether enough to get it tight on the pot. IE it has a wobblenot tight sealed.

depending on how thin the wall is you may need to add a couple of washers to the screws so they can pull the element tight against the seal in the pot wall.

Andrew

 

[absinthe]

sorry if this has been covered elsewhere but,...
I've just found a 12L pot [$14 at cheap as chips if anyone is looking for one]
and want to find a simple, cheap, easy, leakproof way to get the 1/2in copper coil
through the ss pot leaving a 1/2in nipple or socket on the outside. The cheap part rules out a bulkhead from BB or G&G. I've got plenty in the way of tools but the pot's too thin to mig a socket to. I can silver solder brass and have some silicon to make washers but not sure the easiest way to go. Thanks for any pointers, Cheers

although i didnt use a pot mine has no hole in the side apart from the element:

 

[KHB]

depending on how thin the wall is you may need to add a couple of washers to the screws so they can pull the element tight against the seal in the pot wall.

Andrew

OK cheers

 

[TidalPete]

Yes i do but the two units i had only had 3 little screws and they didnt screw togfether enough to get it tight on the pot. IE it has a wobblenot tight sealed.

Take the screws to a bolt & fastner shop (Or an electrical supplier) & get longer ones.
Being from an electrical appliance it's a good chance they are BA (British Association) thread which is quite common. SS or brass of course.
I MAY have siliconed around the undersides of the seal as well. Bit hazy as it's a while back now.

TP --- Edit --- or maybe Andrew's right & the screws are too long not too short (Hence the wobble).

 

[hockadays]

Can i ask about the kind of PIDs people are using too? What kind of PIDs are people using

Do the ramp soak ones let you set the temps for a set period of time and then ramp it up. So could you set it for 67 for the mash and then raise it to mashout and have it do that automatically? Is the the benefit over just an on/off one?

I'm pretty hopeless when it comes to electronics sorry

What other options are there?

For my Hlt I went a straight on/off pid from Auberins and the HX the programable one from auberins let me know if you want model numbers. The programable one is pretty straight forward to set up. Goes like this on the brew today: Set Hlt to 60degc easy. Set first step of program in hold mode which is 55degc. I have a dial faced gage on the HX and the temp probe on the return to the mash. Get the Hx to 60degc in hold mode. Mash in. Start program and recirc the mash. First step is 15min at 55degc. Second is 15min ramp from 55 to 64degc. Third is rest at 64degc for 40min. Forth is 10min ramp from 64 to 69degc. Fifth is 20min rest at 69. Six is ramp from 69 to 73 over 7min. seventh is hold at 73 until I change program. It does it all automatically all you have to check is the flow rate is good for your system and dial in 73 degc for your sparge water. Once you mash in you can come back in two hours to start the sparge.

 

[Screwtop]

Take the screws to a bolt & fastner shop (Or an electrical supplier) & get longer ones.
Being from an electrical appliance it's a good chance they are BA (British Association) thread which is quite common. SS or brass of course.
I MAY have siliconed around the undersides of the seal as well. Bit hazy as it's a while back now.

TP --- Edit --- or maybe Andrew's right & the screws are too long not too short (Hence the wobble).

Pete, could be the diameter of the pot, lots of guys are using small volume pots now and I think I would have difficulty sealing my jug element through the side wall of the new one that I bought for HARMS MK II. Will be mounting it through the bottom this time, easier too, can locate it in the centre of the copper coil and fit more coils in the pot.

Cheers,

Screwy

 

[paulwolf350]

How is everyone getting the kettle elements to seal, i have tried twice now with two different ones and differnent thickness pots and still cant get a seal. What am i doing wrong??

I cut the back out of the plastic kettle, the pot is so thin it adds hardly any thickness to the combined thicckness of the pot +plastic bit. I put the silicone seal through both the pot and the plastic wall of the kettle. Put the element throught the silicone seal and do up as it was in the kettle.

Paul

 

[paulwolf350]

Will be mounting it through the bottom this time, easier too, can locate it in the centre of the copper coil and fit more coils in the pot.

Shit, that is a brilliant idea, I am doing that with my herms element. First thing tomorrow

Paul

 

[AndrewQLD]

The real problem, and I experienced this myself, is that the posts on the element are too long for a thin walled vessel. so when you put the element in the pot with the seal in the hole and you put the plastic back plate on the posts go through the back plate and then you use the screws to tighten the element against the wall of the vessel, the screws are drawing the element and plastic back plate together but because the vessel wall is so thin it won't tighten enough.

The solution I found was to put 2 small washers on each post (they need to be able to fit over the posts and not sit on them) effectively increasing the wall thickness of the pot so to speak.

Sorry, I'm not very good at explaining things like this but I hope you get the idea.

And as far as mounting the element on the bottom, that's where I have mine but be VERY careful about getting a good seal, any leaks will drip straight into the kettle cord.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[woodmac66]

Andrew I am in the Process of making a Herms and the bottom is where I would like to put the element but that was exactly my concern, should it leak!
Why is it the most logical and practical solution always has a downside!
Interested to hear what people have done to reassure themsleves against this.


Woody

 

[newguy]

Andrew I am in the Process of making a Herms and the bottom is where I would like to put the element but that was exactly my concern, should it leak!
Why is it the most logical and practical solution always has a downside!
Interested to hear what people have done to reassure themsleves against this.

I use aquarium caulking. It holds up to the heat (up to 75C in my system) and is "safe". I say "safe" because, to my reasoning, if it's safe for live fish, it's probably safe for humans. "Safe" being a relative term - safer than construction caulking.

It does have a lifetime and has to be replaced every now and again. My present system was constructed a little over 4 years ago and no leaks yet. I used it on an earlier esky-based mash tun and it lasted about 5 years before I had to touch it up with some fresh caulk.

For a vessel that will never see wort, such as your HE, I'd recommend using gutter (eavestrough) caulking. Be careful with other types of caulk because most aren't rated for immersion.